12/24v water pump capability

[bigspark17]

Im wondering what the capability of a 12/24v dc water pump would be and how far it could push/lift water. I dont particularly need a large volume of water pushed from one holding tank to the other.
The system would need to be offgrid as its in the middle of nowhere on a mountain. Water is going to be used to feed animal drinkers.
Hoping that a small dc pump would be capable to save using inverter ect.

 

[Spoon]

Can you give more info to the project.
Is the pump going to be pumping water upwards, level or downwards?
If upwards then how high?

 

[James]

plenty of small 12v water pumps available.

local caravan spares shop will sort out what you need.
most caravans have a 12v submersible pump to provide drinking water and shower etc from an external barrel.
[automerge]1588240984[/automerge]

Reich 19L Twin Submersible Pump | Reich Pumps | Leisureshopdirect

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[telectrix]

i bought this one a couple of years ago for draining pond. had loads of crap through it and been reliable. takes jus over 5A though so you'd get up to 10 hours from the aveage car battery before you need to recharge.

Stainless Submersible Pump Fountain Pool Pond Garden Water Pump 12 Volt 50W | eBay

Power consumption: 50W. Current: 5.4A. Temp of use: 0-60 centigrade Degree.

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[pirate]

It all depends on exactly what you want the pump to do. There are literally hundreds of variations.
The Jabsco range will have something to fit the bill, and while they are not cheap, they do last for a very long time, and are easy to repair.
Here is just one example of the extensive range:

Jabsco Commercial Duty Water Puppy Self Priming Pump

Check out the deal on Jabsco Commercial Duty Water Puppy Self Priming Pump at MarineStore

marinestore.co.uk

 

[Lucien Nunes]

You need to know the head (e.g. in metres lift) and the flow rate (e.g. in litres per minute). It's also useful to know whether it needs to lift on the suction side (or whether water from the source can flow downwards to the pump). The two main types available are diaphragm and centrifugal, which have different pros and cons. Typical DC diaphragm water service pumps will lift around 10-12 litres per minute to 15 metres head using about 4A at 12V.

 

[bigspark17]

It needs to lift most uphill (step) around 250 yards. So im guessing 12v is a no no ?!
And even at mains voltage its gunna need a big array and storage bank.

thanks for everyones input

 

[Lucien Nunes]

So im guessing

This is an engineering problem. Don't guess... calculate!

A vertical lift of 250 yards? I.e. the outlet is 750 feet or 229 metres above the inlet? That corresponds to a pressure of 320 PSI or 22 bar. This is the territory of positive displacement (e.g. piston) pumps, such as the pump in a pressure washer. There are multi-stage centrifugal pumps for these pressures too, but they will generally be much too large or too inefficient. You haven't stated the required flow rate, which is as important to know as the head, but we can work out how much current is needed at 12V to deliver one litre per minute:

Energy to lift 1kg of water 229 metres:
= m.g.h where g=9.81m/s²
=1.0 x 9.81 x 229
=2246J

Piston pumps can achieve high efficiencies, but this is a small pump so let's call it 50% and assume this also allows for frictional and kinetic losses.
Mechanical power input to deliver 1l/min:
=2246/(0.5 x 60)
=75W

If the motor efficiency is 75%, current needed at 12V to deliver 1l/min:
=75/(0.75 x 12)
=8.3A

If a leisure battery of say 110 Ah capacity were to give 8.3A for ten hours, the pump would raise 600 litres or 133 gallons of water on a single charge.

Is that the kind of figure you had in mind? One leisure battery-full = 2/3 of an IBC pallet tank raised? You won't easily find this kind of pump on the shelf in the caravan shop, but if you are creative...

 

[PEG]

Hi,what is the actual layout of the land?...there are other ways to achieve what you want,some of which,use nature as a power source.

 

[Spoon]

As what @PEG has suggested. There are other ways of doing this.
Seeing that this is on a mountain, have you considered using a windmill pump? No electricity needed being high up should catch quite a bit of wind.

 

[PEG]

.....and we're off!

There are other methods,dependant on need and pocket depth.....water harvesting,can provide more than enough,if you are in the right location.

Swapping horse,for camels,can free up a degree of need...

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Swapping horse,for camels

OK, good point. 1hp = 746W, therefore one horse can raise:
60 x 746/75
=597 litres per hour using this pump.

1cp = 683 lm/W. Dammit, that's candle power not camel power. Need data...

 

[bigspark17]

This is an engineering problem. Don't guess... calculate!

A vertical lift of 250 yards? I.e. the outlet is 750 feet or 229 metres above the inlet? That corresponds to a pressure of 320 PSI or 22 bar. This is the territory of positive displacement (e.g. piston) pumps, such as the pump in a pressure washer. There are multi-stage centrifugal pumps for these pressures too, but they will generally be much too large or too inefficient. You haven't stated the required flow rate, which is as important to know as the head, but we can work out how much current is needed at 12V to deliver one litre per minute:

Energy to lift 1kg of water 229 metres:
= m.g.h where g=9.81m/s²
=1.0 x 9.81 x 229
=2246J

Piston pumps can achieve high efficiencies, but this is a small pump so let's call it 50% and assume this also allows for frictional and kinetic losses.
Mechanical power input to deliver 1l/min:
=2246/(0.5 x 60)
=75W

If the motor efficiency is 75%, current needed at 12V to deliver 1l/min:
=75/(0.75 x 12)
=8.3A

If a leisure battery of say 110 Ah capacity were to give 8.3A for ten hours, the pump would raise 600 litres or 133 gallons of water on a single charge.

Is that the kind of figure you had in mind? One leisure battery-full = 2/3 of an IBC pallet tank raised? You won't easily find this kind of pump on the shelf in the caravan shop, but if you are creative...

this pump can now be ran on mains voltage, would the calculation be similar.
Its about 300m run with about 60M rise.
It is to supply a holding tank fed via floatswitch to supply water for cattle and sheep, not a great flow of rate required. Just that it gets there. Thanks for your help
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@Lucien Nunes

 

[Spoon]

this pump can now be ran on mains voltage, would the calculation be similar.
Its about 300m run with about 60M rise.
It is to supply a holding tank fed via floatswitch to supply water for cattle and sheep, not a great flow of rate required. Just that it gets there. Thanks for your help
[automerge]1589127668[/automerge]
@Lucien Nunes

The problem you may have is the volt drop over 300m.
What is the motor size and breaker size?

 

[bigspark17]

The problem you may have is the volt drop over 300m.
What is the motor size and breaker size?

Sorry spoon,no the pump will now be going near the bottom tank by an outbuildig which has electric in it so no problem there, the300m run 65M up was a question about the size of the pump?