17th and part p advice

[telectrix]

you may be right, i'm not up to date with all these new course numbers.

 

[glenandem]

The course you're thinking of is the EAL Domestic Installers Certificate.

hi mate do you know what the difference is between the 2382-10 and 2382-12 course and will both still get me the 17th certificate?

edit- just been trawling the web and looks like the 12 is just an update on the 10 to go with the green book etc?

 

[Engineer54]

, ive fitted quite a few consumer units,house rewires,basic lights and plug wiring and alarms wired smoke dets showers etc and feel confident and safe enough to work on my own once qualified especially as i will have the book to help guide me etc.

So you only want to basically change like for like do you, and of course rewires, and just about everything else, from what i can see all on the back of a test on the 17th...

The 17th isn't going to teach you ''Anything'' ...and what you know about electrical theory i'm dammed sure i could write on the back of a smoke packet and i jest not!!!

You are incompetent Now and you will be just as incompetent when you hold your bit of paper, and still just as incompetent when a scheme provider registers you as a buckshee competent electrician. That's is the biggest farce of all, the very people put in place to oversee electrical competence, are the very people allowing them in, ...in droves ...and into the general public's houses!!! They are just interested in the income from these people!!

Basically your just a builder that wants to be able to sign off any electrical work you take on, that in reality, you shouldn't even be touching. You have absolutly no recognised technical training whatsoever, you have NOTHING in fact!!! Who knows what criteria you have used to design any of the circuits you've installed in the past, ..the mind just boggles!!! In all Honesty, you are little more than a DIY'er

Tel, i'm a bit surprised at you coming out with that ''Fair Enough''!! There's nothing fair enough about this guy, he thinks (and doesn't everyone) he's capable of doing an electricians work and just wants to sign his own work off!! For god's sake, he doesn't even come close to being as capable as a Electrical Trainee in electrical technical terms!!

Geezus this has just got to stop, before everyone ''thinks'' they are an electrician!!!

 

[telectrix]

engineer, my " fair enough" comment was in response to the OP saying he wanted to learn the trade to be able to install competently, rather than just plough in regardless. obviously a short course is no substitute for practical experience, and until something is done to redress the current situation where cash income for training providers and scam clubs rules, it's a disgrace to a once noble profession.

 

[glenandem]

So you only want to basically change like for like do you, and of course rewires, and just about everything else, from what i can see all on the back of a test on the 17th...

The 17th isn't going to teach you ''Anything'' ...and what you know about electrical theory i'm dammed sure i could write on the back of a smoke packet and i jest not!!!

You are incompetent Now and you will be just as incompetent when you hold your bit of paper, and still just as incompetent when a scheme provider registers you as a buckshee competent electrician. That's is the biggest farce of all, the very people put in place to oversee electrical competence, are the very people allowing them in, ...in droves ...and into the general public's houses!!! They are just interested in the income from these people!!

Basically your just a builder that wants to be able to sign off any electrical work you take on, that in reality, you shouldn't even be touching. You have absolutly no recognised technical training whatsoever, you have NOTHING in fact!!! Who knows what criteria you have used to design any of the circuits you've installed in the past, ..the mind just boggles!!! In all Honesty, you are little more than a DIY'er

Tel, i'm a bit surprised at you coming out with that ''Fair Enough''!! There's nothing fair enough about this guy, he thinks (and doesn't everyone) he's capable of doing an electricians work and just wants to sign his own work off!! For god's sake, he doesn't even come close to being as capable as a Electrical Trainee in electrical technical terms!!

Geezus this has just got to stop, before everyone ''thinks'' they are an electrician!!!

hi there,can i ask if youve tried to contact the relevant organisation about all these so called diy'ers like myself,surely there must be houses burning down everywhere, do you think my father who owns a reputable building company would allow me to do wiring etc that im not sure about that could be dangerous, i wouldnt allow myself to do that.
people like you seem to think you know it all and rather than guide people in the right direction of where i could possibly get training if needed just prefer to slate us all and tarnish us with the same brush,whats to say you arent a dodgy electrician eh???
im not saying you might not be clued up on everything but jesus give people a break and help them with constructive advice if your so concerned about how dangerous the trade is with all these unskilled electricians runnning about!
heres an example for you,when i came into the motor trade out of school i never went to college so didnt have any nvqs as such but as the years went by i learnt and anything i wasnt sure about i had my work checked out like i would more so with electrics, now i went working at other garages over the years and picked up qualifications from manufacture training etc but one boss i had said i was better trained than some of the techs who had been to college and to be honest ive seen them come out of college into the real world and find it a challenge, because i had hands on experience and even now though im still learning new things here and there but sometimes college isnt all that.
if you want to offer any good constructive advice feel free but please dont tarnish me with the rest of bad electricians,i want the 17th so i can start doing more and learning on the way but would never take chances and make sure i got somone in to check my work if i wasnt sure or happy?

 

[Engineer54]

hi there,can i ask if youve tried to contact the relevant organisation about all these so called diy'ers like myself,surely there must be houses burning down everywhere, do you think my father who owns a reputable building company would allow me to do wiring etc that im not sure about that could be dangerous, i wouldnt allow myself to do that.
people like you seem to think you know it all and rather than guide people in the right direction of where i could possibly get training if needed just prefer to slate us all and tarnish us with the same brush,whats to say you arent a dodgy electrician eh???
im not saying you might not be clued up on everything but jesus give people a break and help them with constructive advice if your so concerned about how dangerous the trade is with all these unskilled electricians runnning about!
heres an example for you,when i came into the motor trade out of school i never went to college so didnt have any nvqs as such but as the years went by i learnt and anything i wasnt sure about i had my work checked out like i would more so with electrics, now i went working at other garages over the years and picked up qualifications from manufacture training etc but one boss i had said i was better trained than some of the techs who had been to college and to be honest ive seen them come out of college into the real world and find it a challenge, because i had hands on experience and even now though im still learning new things here and there but sometimes college isnt all that.
if you want to offer any good constructive advice feel free but please dont tarnish me with the rest of bad electricians,i want the 17th so i can start doing more and learning on the way but would never take chances and make sure i got somone in to check my work if i wasnt sure or happy?

Not much interested in whether your dad thinks your capable or not, the fact of the matter is, you have stated here that you have done house rewires CU changes, and just about everything else. You, whether you like it or, have no recognised training whatsoever!! Your NOT competent by anyone's stretch of the imagination to have done any of this work. Which means you should never have been undertaking this work in peoples houses full stop. I don't even care if you had someone look it over, (they never get to see everything anyway) more fool them for signing your work off, which is also supposed to be illegal. So your working illegally and the guy signing your work off is illegal, getting the picture yet?? What your after, like so many others, ...is a quick fix way of signing your own work off, and that was evident from your very first post!!!

If you want constructive advice, Go and get yourself on a recognised C&G level 3, core electrical qualification course. At the same time get your dad's electrician to give you working experience.... In other words do things properly, and not going down the quick fix path, because they don't work!!!

 

[glenandem]

Not much interested in whether your dad thinks your capable or not, the fact of the matter is, you have stated here that you have done house rewires CU changes, and just about everything else. You, whether you like it or, have no recognised training whatsoever!! Your NOT competent by anyone's stretch of the imagination to have done any of this work. Which means you should never have been undertaking this work in peoples houses full stop. I don't even care if you had someone look it over, (they never get to see everything anyway) more fool them for signing your work off, which is also supposed to be illegal. So your working illegally and the guy signing your work off is illegal, getting the picture yet?? What your after, like so many others, ...is a quick fix way of signing your own work off, and that was evident from your very first post!!!

If you want constructive advice, Go and get yourself on a recognised C&G level 3, core electrical qualification course. At the same time get your dad's electrician to give you working experience.... In other words do things properly, and not going down the quick fix path, because they don't work!!!

hi pal,thats a bit better rather than just slag me off and tarnish me with that brush!,i must of mislead you somewhere as i thought i'd said when i did these rewires etc they was helping the electrician we had employed so i was his sidekick as such and he always checked my work over so i wasnt strictly doing it by myself but feel i am more than competent enough to do it solo now as ive had experience doing it but still feel i could learn more obviously.
my father does everything by the book as we have to working for a landlord with rental propertys,thats why i want to get my 17th and part p etc.
cheers for advice anyway i dont want to argue with you or anyone else as im only here to learn and ask for advice not to come arguing with people who i want advice from but sometimes you guys think everyone whos not qualified just want it easy,im willing to work hard to learn and if you dont question things you never learn, maybe you go on a defensive because you dont want more people coming in the trade or taking work away from you etc which is understandable but its going to happen if you give advice or not but if your so concerned about the the state of system of training and safety etc why not try to do somthing about it??

 

[keefy]

At least you want to learn, so many don't and don't care so you will get tarnished if you are starting the same way.

You say that you worked and gained experience therefore became a better mechanic than some of the techs that went to college, that can be directly attributed to what you are doing now and by taking a couple of exams you will be one of the 'less able techs', for a while at least.

As I have said before, its a matter of conscience and ability to do the work you do competently. As for the schemes, lord knows we've all tried but the chance of changing the Part P debarcle round is not likely. It will, unfortunately, take another death to change it, and bear in mind that what started as a safety regulation quickly became an assurance that less cash jobs will be done.

As for the 17th edition; my wife, who is a PA to a CEO, passed a mock exam with limited tuition and the regs book, my son, aged 13, also passed second time after some tuition. Don't for 1 minute think this is an electrical exam and it certainly is not a level 3 either. Level 2 tops. So constructive advice is it will be easy and if you fail you are less smart than a 13 year old! As for the question about the green book, its a dumb question.

Yes there are bad electricians out there, the difference is they know they are bad, whereas inexperienced electricians don't. Constructive advise time again; do what you know, find a flexible electrician who maybe has started up by himself and is after some work whilst he builds up his business, learn from him over 3-4 years depending on the work you do and your ability, take the relevant exams as you go, do the NVQ, do the AM2, call yourself an electrician who did it the right way, with pride.

Don't; think its ALL easy, that because it works its right, that because nobody has died from shoddy electrical work that all is rosy in the garden, that it won't be you who enforces the change in Part P.

 

[hercule]

The 17th course will teach you nothing practical - just theory, you will need practical training as well. It doesn't teach you anything about building regs either, which you need for part p work/registration.

The problem is that a lot of domestic electrics isn't difficult to get it to work, why a lot of other trades do there own without houses burning down all over the place. BUT, without the training and experience you can't do it correctly - just getting the light to come on isn't enough. It needs to be thoroughly tested to proove that it is safe.

I'm sure that most on this forum who do domestic work come across unsafe electrical work put in by other trades or diyers most days. Of these, not many may have caught fire or electricuted anyone - but its a miracle more haven't.

Dave in the pub might be a good handyman, but I don't let him fix the brakes on my van or sort out the gas leak on my boiler - but he's fitting a new socket here, outside lights there and a bathroom fan for someone else. It's just black-blue and red -brown and it works, innit?

 

[Engineer54]

maybe you go on a defensive because you dont want more people coming in the trade or taking work away from you etc which is understandable but its going to happen if you give advice or not

I certainly hope NOT!!

No, i don't go on the defensive for that reason, I haven't worked in the UK for a good many years, so no-ones taking any work from me at all!! What i'm conserned about is the demise of my once proud electrical industry as a whole in the UK. All i see now, is under trained, under experienced people calling themselves ''Qualified'' electricians, which they most certainly are Not!!!

I go on the defensive as you call it, because i have been in this electrical industry for more years than i care to remember. It's an industry that i care deeply about. ...And one that i don't want to see go down the pan, because greedy organisations and individuals, care more about making a fast buck, than maintaining the once high standards it was accustomed too!! As i see it, the domestic sector, especially these Part Pee providers and quick fix training centres are doing it's damnedest to bring down those industry standards to a semi skilled level at the very best!! That's basically why i go off on one, when i see those that want quick fixes to get into a profession that doesn't and can't work with quick fix situations or people!!....

 

[DurhamSparky]

E54 i agree whole heatedly with your posts and defense to the electrical industry!

 

[trev]

I have a St John's Ambulance Certificate in Public First Aid, and an interest in teeth. Would you trust me to take yours out safely? My mate is a dentist and he will be in the building next door just in case
If not, Why not?

 

[glenandem]

hi engineer 54,glad to hear your reply and i got the impression that you are like many of the other electricians worried about the state of the business but as youve already gone working abroad i take its because you too think this country has gone to the dogs and im not just talking about the electrics industry! but unfortunately its the way it is and we all have to get on with it, yes im looking to get what i need quickly as i feel im compentent enough but while im looking for a buck im not looking to make a quick one that puts peoples lives in danger from shoddy wiring!
anyway im getting bored now of keeping going on about something ive not wanted to get involved with, feel free to offer good advice but im not interested in hearing about how bad people or the industry is,im just trying to do the best i can for myself without doing bodge jobs.
good luck in china!

 

[Engineer54]

I think were all very aware that your not interested in the electrical industry, your just out to take advantage of it!! So you can, as i've said before, to sign off your own work that your not competent to be doing in the first place!!!

Wrong again i'm afraid, i started working overseas during the boom years, when we had a very healthy electrical industry. But then there wasn't any Part Pee, no Scam providers, and certainly no Electrical Trainee's!!! There was definitly no possibility of chancers getting into the industry via the back door with no training whatsoever. What we did have was a set of obligatory core C&G's coupled with the required working experience that you NEEDED to become an electrician!!

 

[stripes]

I have studied for 3 years evenings and weekends,I have now got level 3 electrics, 17th edition and past 2391 Inspection & testing first time, but because I don't work in the industry I still don't feel I have enough knowledge to go and apply for part p and work on my own.
There is a lot more to electrics than people think or will ever understand.
My advise is to pay for a qualified sparky or if you are lucky enough, to work closely with one to gain valuable knowledge before embarking on the 17th as you will need to know how to do cable calculation formula's, voltage drop, rcd trip time etc, things you have probably never heard of.