17th Edition

[kung]

Alot of things change over night, tomorrow I might be a plumber

Gas safe ?

 

[hotXbun]

Should I get upset when a Senior member is upset with me, a lowly 'junior' member? Lol, I wish I was 'junior'
I have been in the building trades all my life. My Father was an electrician. I was an electrician till 10 years or so ago when I decided I was no longer competent so I employed "more qualified" types to do the work. That I was quite capable of checking up on what they did was neither here nor there..... I spent most of my time involved with TN S installations in South London and gradually felt that the introduction of the TNC S system was intruding on my complacency so I didn't need some marketing organisation to come along and try to put me in the "incompetent' section as I was already there!

And I agree with all those qualified tradesmen who look upon these short get competent courses with a certain degree of contempt, but we are not all the same and you cannot possibly understand how good someone is till you either employ them or they come recommended. And then my mate goes and gets himself competent and I'm not and it sort of made me sulk for a bit, hence my great satisfaction in finally throwing away the chains and moving on!

Now, back to the question. Yes, my 100mA RCD did throw a bit of a wobbly .... trouble is, since I moved to Stoke nigh on everything so far has been TT with time delays and earth rods etc....... And yes, the system supposedly before the 17th Edition would perhaps have not included 30mA RCD protection of all circuits, but, and it is a BIG BUT:

• This consumer unit is a new one fitted within the last few months
• not having done the original work, it's a bit of a cliché to assume all wiring is 50mm below the surface
• The electrician had to buy this non-17th edition consumer unit and either declined to bring it up to standard or maybe he none the wiser ...
• What sort of electrician will happily instal a new 17th edition CU and then just put loads of stickers on it telling all and sundry that the underlying circuits may not be the right colour nor may they operate as a 'proper 17th IEE regulated circuit should behave in a n ideal situation - the stickers don't lie .... there was only one sticker on the CU in question, it said to have another look in 10 years and not a word about anything else!

Oh yes, I think we can agree that the 17th Edition has moved the regulations into the realm of facts and figures. I think for new installations it will be a joy to implement. Where it falls down is in the 'improvements' field, the one where you have to try and satisfy what the Client wants, what the Client can afford, and at the same time bring it up to 17th standards by following what can oft seem totally daft and silly practises! For instance, the whole house can do what it likes, but if you want to have another socket put in, it (and the wiring) have to comply with the latest standards .... total baloney!

The 17th Edition has made a rod for its own back. It is trying to achieve the impractical and the impossible. It is fine for new builds. It is not fine for existing ones. What the relevant Organisations should be doing is recognising that trying to label every possible course of action into a required "This is what you do!" is tantamount to treating us as incompetent yet the irony is the same Organisations insist we become competent and dutifully follow their every word.

A word to our Masters, "You made us competent, now would you please go and treat us like we are!"

Oh, and stop trying to tell me how to do my job ....... thanks for reading this far ... I assume I'm allowed to digress in my own thread lol ... oh and hopefully by the time I've finished writing in I'll have as many posts up my sleeve as dear Des

Gas safe ?

LOL, how many gas fitters do you know who come in before doing the work and carry out a gas test? Yeah right! Yet it is a lot easier to do this simple test than the sort of testing I'm supposed to do. So maybe a quick look at the apparatus, maybe a bit of a sniff to prior to lighting up the bit of paper and waving around the under-stairs cupboard?? "Oh Yesh! Quite safe, Madam!" ..... that'll be £200 and with every certificate you get a free supply of 100 paracetamol to ward off the inevitable headaches

You want to know somefink? I just gone and bought a canal boat ..... It will need a Boat Safety Certificate but I can do ALL the work and it is ALL legal .......... keeps me out of harms way

Anyone want to buy a boat .... should be finished in time for next year (if I don't go and blow myself up or drown or electrocute myself ... all these dangers ...... I need more stickers!!! lolol )

 

[Des 56]

hotXbun

Read your last post and I owe you one monster of a retraction
You gave me the impression of being a plumber with a couple of weeks sparking and an attitude of overconfidence

The schemes have wrecked the trade for the sparks, by opening up to anyone with a few weeks schooling,it annoys me and its a pain to see what its doing to the trade

As I said, I got you very wrong and I'm sorry to have put my mouth in where it didn't deserve to be

 

[sparks1234]

hotXbun

Read your last post and I owe you one monster of a retraction
You gave me the impression of being a plumber with a couple of weeks sparking and an attitude of overconfidence

The schemes have wrecked the trade for the sparks, by opening up to anyone with a few weeks schooling,it annoys me and its a pain to see what its doing to the trade

As I said, I got you very wrong and I'm sorry to have put my mouth in where it didn't deserve to be

Think there may be others with a very big foot in their mouth

 

[hotXbun]

Think there may be others with a very big foot in their mouth

Not really ) .. I feel a certain warmth towards all you foot and mouthers

My alias is not exactly electrifying so much as typical of some loud mouthed gas fitter type ... is that insulting to gas fitters???

So, before we completely lose the plot ...............Just what do I say to Client? She realises that I am in an embarrassing situation so how do I deal with it? Said Electrician belongs to NICEIC ... do I respectfully ask them to appear or do we just keep quiet and hope I act dumb?

.... and when can I expect my photo to appear? . my handsome photo.......

 

[High Tower]

hotXbun

Read your last post and I owe you one monster of a retraction
You gave me the impression of being a plumber with a couple of weeks sparking and an attitude of overconfidence

The schemes have wrecked the trade for the sparks, by opening up to anyone with a few weeks schooling,it annoys me and its a pain to see what its doing to the trade

As I said, I got you very wrong and I'm sorry to have put my mouth in where it didn't deserve to be

Nice to see someone who is willing to stand up for things that matters, even better to see someone who isnt afraid to admit they are wrong

Nice one Des !!

 

[Notsosmart]

Now, back to the question. Yes, my 100mA RCD did throw a bit of a wobbly .... trouble is, since I moved to Stoke nigh on everything so far has been TT with time delays and earth rods etc....... And yes, the system supposedly before the 17th Edition would perhaps have not included 30mA RCD protection of all circuits, but, and it is a BIG BUT:

• This consumer unit is a new one fitted within the last few months
• not having done the original work, it's a bit of a cliché to assume all wiring is 50mm below the surface
• The electrician had to buy this non-17th edition consumer unit and either declined to bring it up to standard or maybe he none the wiser ...
• What sort of electrician will happily instal a new 17th edition CU and then just put loads of stickers on it telling all and sundry that the underlying circuits may not be the right colour nor may they operate as a 'proper 17th IEE regulated circuit should behave in a n ideal situation - the stickers don't lie .... there was only one sticker on the CU in question, it said to have another look in 10 years and not a word about anything else!

Anyone want to buy a boat .... should be finished in time for next year (if I don't go and blow myself up or drown or electrocute myself ... all these dangers ...... I need more stickers!!! lolol )

Hi Hot buns

What kind of boat, are you offering to take us on a romantic cruise?

On the serious side, remember this clients comfort bubble is expanded so if you are going to burst it, do it gently ~ no vast sucking of teeth & swearing about the last installer.
Is the work done dangerous? Probably/possibly not.
Is the work done compliant ~ its not today (or when done) but 18 months ago it would have been (apart from the lack of certification etc.)

It comes down to your integrity (which seems to be high) & whether you wish to try to remedy the situation by confronting the so-&-so who did the work &/or contacting the insurance company. The customer may end up cursing you for the extra expense but it may end up better all round, if there is room, to fit an extra RCD (or rcbo's) to protect the rogue circuits & issuing a new certificate.

 

[High Tower]

Hold on..........A boat???? No one said anything about a boat, Sorry dont do, help or get involved with boats.

I cant swim, I get sea sick and more importaintly, with my habbit of drilling holes in completely the wrong place i probably shouldnt !!!

If people choose to live like a hobbit on a boat then what the hell do they want with electricity????

Even more to the point do they not know that Sparks are scared of water (this i keep explaining to plummers every time they forget to connect something up and soak me while im second fixing)

I might sound negative but heres a equation that you wont find in the regs

Sparks x drill + boat x lots of water / 240v = a drowned sparks with a large liabillity claim

Need i say anymore

 

[hotXbun]

Hi Hot buns

What kind of boat, are you offering to take us on a romantic cruise?

On the serious side, remember this clients comfort bubble is expanded so if you are going to burst it, do it gently ~ no vast sucking of teeth & swearing about the last installer.
Is the work done dangerous? Probably/possibly not.
Is the work done compliant ~ its not today (or when done) but 18 months ago it would have been (apart from the lack of certification etc.)

It comes down to your integrity (which seems to be high) & whether you wish to try to remedy the situation by confronting the so-&-so who did the work &/or contacting the insurance company. The customer may end up cursing you for the extra expense but it may end up better all round, if there is room, to fit an extra RCD (or rcbo's) to protect the rogue circuits & issuing a new certificate.

Thanks Notsosmart I really like that idea. ............ anything to keep things on an even keel

Oh, and the boat is 57' cruiser narrowboat with all amenities. Wife wants to know what sort of romance you into !!

Hold on..........A boat???? No one said anything about a boat, Sorry dont do, help or get involved with boats.

I cant swim, I get sea sick and more importaintly, with my habbit of drilling holes in completely the wrong place i probably shouldnt !!!

If people choose to live like a hobbit on a boat then what the hell do they want with electricity????

Even more to the point do they not know that Sparks are scared of water (this i keep explaining to plummers every time they forget to connect something up and soak me while im second fixing)

I might sound negative but heres a equation that you wont find in the regs

Sparks x drill + boat x lots of water / 240v = a drowned sparks with a large liabillity claim

Need i say anymore

Hmmmmmmmmm my boat is not a hobbit boat ... it is a 4 berth cruiser with walk through bathroom (corner bath and power shower and 'proper' toilet), a decently equipped galley (fridge/freezer 11/2 bowl S/S sink Oven and 4 ring hob ... it even got an integrated ironing board! ) ..... it has 12v and 240v electrics and it even has an engine!

We move around with dog and visit pubs and go for walks and I have not yet fallen in (and anyway, the water only about 3 foot deep, so I've been told )

But thanks for the advice ........ I'll forwarn all future guests that they only allowed on board providing they leave their drills at home

 

[danielrobinson]

Hi Your absolutly write about all circuits being on an RCD just look in the new onsite guide, show customer its quite clearly laid out. As for knowing what depth things are just look in a light switch or some other point of the installation. its very unlikly that it will be at a depth of 50mm that is really quite deep.
JIB approved grade electrician with 19 years experiance if we are discussing qualifications and expereiance.
Good to talk

Daniel Robinson

 

[Notsosmart]

Thanks Notsosmart I really like that idea. ............ anything to keep things on an even keel

Oh, and the boat is 57' cruiser narrowboat with all amenities. Wife wants to know what sort of romance you into !!

Ok its a date I'll bring my Gimp suit!!

Damn I've let the cat out of the bag again

 

[High Tower]

Thanks Notsosmart I really like that idea. ............ anything to keep things on an even keel

Oh, and the boat is 57' cruiser narrowboat with all amenities. Wife wants to know what sort of romance you into !!


Hmmmmmmmmm my boat is not a hobbit boat ... it is a 4 berth cruiser with walk through bathroom (corner bath and power shower and 'proper' toilet), a decently equipped galley (fridge/freezer 11/2 bowl S/S sink Oven and 4 ring hob ... it even got an integrated ironing board! ) ..... it has 12v and 240v electrics and it even has an engine!

We move around with dog and visit pubs and go for walks and I have not yet fallen in (and anyway, the water only about 3 foot deep, so I've been told )

But thanks for the advice ........ I'll forwarn all future guests that they only allowed on board providing they leave their drills at home

Sounds like a delightfull way to live!!! its always made me smile the thought of living on the water but as i have said i am far too clumsy to be around that much water