2024 Road Tax pay per mile

[BruceBanner]

Afternoon all,

Anyone got any thoughts on this pay per mile Road tax scheme being proposed in October?

 

[snowhead]

There isn't enough information yet to make any useful comments about.
Too many unknowns.

Is it actually going to happen or just a possible proposal.

Is pay per mile instead of existing road tax
or additional to
or additional to a reduced current road tax.
Will it be a different rate for personal and business miles.

Is it going to be like New Zealand where you buy miles in advance and if caught exceeding what you've pre paid then it's a fine.

 

[littlespark]

On paper it sounds good to those who only use their vehicles sometimes for short journeys… but really bad for those that can travel 100’s of miles per day.

They already have different rates of road tax for different vehicles… be that business or personal… and how polluting they are…


They can’t just suddenly drop it on us without any consultation…

How will they do it? Use your tacho as basically a meter and have it read when you get your MOT?

 

[Rockingit]

How will they do it? Use your tacho as basically a meter and have it read when you get your MOT?

That's also probably unworkable as any veh's that go into Europe could feasibly do thousands of miles without being due any tax. If they plan on doing it by NPR then we'll be in the sweet as by the time they get around to installing cameras for every country lane around here I'll be dead.

I'm not, in principle, actually that against it as an idea - those who use the most pay the most - but I do think it's unworkable.

 

[UNG]

If it is intended to use ANPR then it's guaranteed that the theft and duplication of number plates is going rise and many people will be screwed over for payments for miles they haven't driven

One thing that is certain it will end up costing more to go to work or jobs or it's going to be fun getting that tall stepladder to site on public transport

 

[pirate]

We already pay per mile through fuel duty. It might work if that tax was scrapped. The idea is to get some more money to fill the black hole whereby EV drivers don't pay fuel duty so taxing them and everyone else per mile would help fill the coffers. Of course it means more cameras and more surveillance...but we are used to that now.
However, the whole EV thing is going to crash and burn in the not too distant future...sales are down, second hand prices have tanked and some major manufacturers have withheld launch of new models due to lack of demand. I fear for those who have based their business on installing chargers. Of course the tech will improve, but meantime the high initial cost puts off private buyers. It's fine if your company gives you an EV on lease because the incentives and tax breaks are worthwhile and after 3 years you just hand it back and the second-hand value doesn't matter, but leasing companies will have to respond with higher charges...and try to find a way of getting rid of their stock of returned vehicles.

 

[Dan]

This seems crazy at first glance

EV market is crazy. So they're incentivising some to have them but then this will put a bunch off.

I don't think there are any less petrol or diesel than 20 or 30 years ago quite yet are there? Haven't seen an electric bus north of Watford.

Does anybody know if any other country manages to charge per mile yet?

 

[Rockingit]

Not that I've ever come across as it would be virtually impossible to police anywhere else, too.

I've actually sorn'd two vehicles this year, even for just a month or so at a time if I've been away (the online system makes it so easy), bullocks if I'm giving this or any other goverment a penny more than necessary!

 

[snowhead]

New Zealand has petrol taxed at the pump, no further charge.

All other fuelled vehicles and even trailers, pay Distance Licence per km, paid for at local shops who are part of the scheme, same places sell the wheelie bin tags, no tag and the bin(s) don't get emptied.

Link to charges below.
Businesses can claim back for vehicle usage just as in the U.K.

My Son lived there for a year and did just over 12000 km in a new diesel Ssangyong (now KGM) Rexton.
Also another few thousand in BMW Mini commuting to work.

RUC rates and transaction fees | NZ Transport Agency Waka Kotahi

Rates for powered and unpowered vehicles.

www.nzta.govt.nz

 

[Dan]

I've stuck one in a garage and sorned it but then was rang by a number I didn't recognise this morning and I forgot I own a focus st that's been off the road for 2 years and in the garage for 1 of them!

This is it's 4th engine / engine rebuild and it's only done 70k. What's that about 17k per engine! Although bought it with 68k on on its original engine then it went downhill from there (the only way it would go as it didn't start mwahahaa).

Dead common as they have stainless steel liners in the cylinders. The RS version doesn't and never blows, apparently.

So I haven't even started on electric at all yet and think I'll give it a while.

 

[Dan]

New Zealand has petrol taxed at the pump, no further charge.

All other fuelled vehicles and even trailers, pay Distance Licence per km, paid for at local shops who are part of the scheme, same places sell the wheelie bin tags, no tag and the bin(s) don't get emptied.

Link to charges below.
Businesses can claim back for vehicle usage just as in the U.K.

My Son lived there for a year and did just over 12000 km in a new diesel Ssangyong (now KGM) Rexton.
Also another few thousand in BMW Mini commuting to work.

RUC rates and transaction fees | NZ Transport Agency Waka Kotahi

Rates for powered and unpowered vehicles.

www.nzta.govt.nz

We need mimic that then if that works!

 

[James]

We already pay per mile through fuel duty. It might work if that tax was scrapped. The idea is to get some more money to fill the black hole whereby EV drivers don't pay fuel duty so taxing them and everyone else per mile would help fill the coffers. Of course it means more cameras and more surveillance...but we are used to that now.
However, the whole EV thing is going to crash and burn in the not too distant future...sales are down, second hand prices have tanked and some major manufacturers have withheld launch of new models due to lack of demand. I fear for those who have based their business on installing chargers. Of course the tech will improve, but meantime the high initial cost puts off private buyers. It's fine if your company gives you an EV on lease because the incentives and tax breaks are worthwhile and after 3 years you just hand it back and the second-hand value doesn't matter, but leasing companies will have to respond with higher charges...and try to find a way of getting rid of their stock of returned vehicles.

If Ev users charge at home, they pay 5% vat on the electricity they use, if they charge out on the road or at work they pay 20% vat on the energy they use.
the energy providers, generators and distributers all pay corporation tax and vat on there earnings so the government do get their cut already.

so lets take a guess at a couple of things.

say I spend £100 charging at a service station

Vat at point of sale has £20 leaving £80 that I have spent

I am guessing that most of the companies involved would make around 5% profit from there part of things (could be a mile out but lets just see)

chargepoint supplier company
receive £80
pay £16 VAT
receive £15.20 from VAT
make a £4 profit and pay 25% corporation tax (£1)

so in total they pay £1.80 in tax

leaving £78.20 to pay the electricity supplier

electricity supplier company
receive £78.20
pay £15.64 VAT
receive £14.86 from VAT
make a £3.91 profit and pay 25% corporation tax (£0.98)

so in total they pay £1.76 in tax

leaving £76.44 to pay the electricity generator

electricity generator company
receive £76.44
pay £15.29 VAT
receive £14.52 from VAT
make a £3.82 profit and pay 25% corporation tax (£0.96)

so in total they pay £1.73 in tax

the national grid have to distribute this electricity and it is likely that there part also generates some tax, lets assume it is £1.50

so I spend £100
Direct VAT £20
Tax 1 £1.80
Tax 2 £1.76
Tax 3 £1.73
Tax 4 £1.50
Total Taxation is in the region of £26.79

Therefore, the existing taxation system will take over 1/4 of what I pay to fuel my car already and of course I have had to pay tax on the money that I earned to buy it in the first place.

I do agree that a road tax per mile based on the environmental impact and wear and tear on roads would be a fairer system.
however, HGV probably do 10x the wear and tear per mile on the road than any car / van
They will never end up paying 10x as much per mile as we do as it would destroy the business model of most haulage companies.

as we know, government incompetence will prevent any self reporting mileage/tax payment from working efficiently.

quite rightly so, the public would be in uproar if we all had to have a gps Taxation device fitted in our cars to monitor mileage.

you could do it at every MOT, when the mileage is checked, you pay your £45 for the test and an additional charge for the tax of mileage.
the 3 year before 1st mot issue could be sorted easily as it would just be a mileage check with no physical check.
however, how many people do you know that would be incapable of budgeting for that expense once per year?

per mile taxation could be a lot fairer, (would cost me a fortune) however it is an idea that has so many hurdles to implement that I doubt they will be able to do it.

 

[Dan]

Some aren't even making 5% they're installing them and until they've had x hours on them they wont make even the 5%.

But wicked workings out that!

And doing it MOT is brilliant idea.

You should run the scheme dude! Ha

The MOT way the dealers could then offer x miles a year foc for 3 years like they sometimes have done with extended warranties type deal.

So that'd cover the brand new cars for a bit too. Companies will go over no doubt so need declare it somehow.

Annual service light could come on for the checks (so people actually go) even maybe.

Let think how this could work automatically.

A tesla you'd press a button monthly to see your amount and could just click to pay using apple pay etc one small software update that would be for UK cars only.

What about cars that leave the country for 6 months and come back for 6 months (know loads of ski and snowboard people who I've met over the years work out there for ski months and holiday the rest of the year they earn so much).

You'd need declare that somehow.