220v. 230v, 240v, 250v?

[John-SJW]

I saw an oven that was rated at 3,100 watts. Now most would say that cannot be fitted on final ring circuit as rule of thumb. But:
3,100 watts draws amps of:
14.09 amps @ 220v
13.47 amps @ 230v
12.91 amps @ 240v
12.4 amps @ 250v

If the installation is 240v or 250v then it safely inside the 13 amp of a final ring circuit.

The question is, and the regs aficionados can help here, what is the voltage that should be used to assess, as maybe the voltage will vary in an installation over the years.

 

[LastManOnline]

It was my attempt to take the best of European and British and combine them into one product with no geographical limits or undesirable compatibility issues. Anything that fits it, is safe to use in it.

I like the product. I could see it in a niche market like hotels and and airports where it would automatically save people on cost of adaptors. I am not sure of its cost effectiveness though for the average British home

 

[LastManOnline]

You need to think it all through.

There may be an element of "practicing what you preach here". When you started this post you were alerted to the fact you had, nt "thought it all through". You misunderstood the relationship between voltage and current in a resistive circuit. You ended the post again being alerted to the fact you had, nt "thought it all through" regarding the relationship between the fused plugtop and the rfc.

 

[John-SJW]

There may be an element of "practicing what you preach here". When you started this post you were alerted to the fact you had, nt "thought it all through". You misunderstood the relationship between voltage and current in a resistive circuit. You ended the post again being alerted to the fact you had, nt "thought it all through" regarding the relationship between the fused plugtop and the rfc.

You have not thought through the advantages of the UK socket and plug arrangement for sure. This arrangement, from the gate in the socket, the insulated conductor prongs to the fuse in the plug, has resulted in less electrical accidents for sure.

 

[DPG]

You have not thought through the advantages of the UK socket and plug arrangement for sure. This arrangement, from the gate in the socket, the insulated conductor prongs to the fuse in the plug, has resulted in less electrical accidents for sure.

You might be responding to the wrong post here John?

 

[John-SJW]

Nope.

 

[DPG]

Nope.

I don't think lastmanonline has denied the advantages of the UK plug though.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

BS1363 is not the only type with shutters or insulated pins these days. Although, insulated pins are not so important where the plug mating face engages in a deep pocket in the socket front, such as CEE7/3 Schuko.

BS1363 is a good plug that benefits from being of more recent design than most, engineered to meet a specification based on experience of other good plugs including BS372 and derivatives. But the fuse is an Achilles heel due to its heat dissipation and its requirement for fuse contacts of excellent design and manufacture. If these are in any way lacking in quality, and many are (compared to say the original MK Safety Plug) they are markedly unreliable on high load and prone to thermal runaway. This is not a fault with the design as such, but nonetheless it gives rise to a range of common failure modes that would not exist if there were no fuse.

In contrast, a moulded unfused plug with spot-welded leads has no pressure contacts internally and unless of genuinely faulty manufacture cannot exhibit significant resistance or generate significant heat even under overload. Only the socket and switch contacts dissipate significant heat, and if you have spent much time dissecting and testing typical sockets from around the world, you will know that run-of-the-mill BS1363 socket contacts are not always the lowest-resistance offering out there. A well-made Schuko socket will handle 20A continuously, giving a useful safety margin to avoid thermal runaway at 16A.

No one design currently in use has all the best features. Some have very few of them. Some locales tend not to use plugs at all, preferring to push wires into sockets. Shutters are a real nuisance here and well worth avoiding.

 

[LastManOnline]

BS1363 is a good plug that benefits from being of more recent design than most..... But the fuse is an Achilles heel.
.

Firstly, your objective analysis is as always...very refreshing. My view of the "achilles heel" is a simple one. Get rid of it. It can be done easily and inexpensively

Replace the kitchen ring (plus other rings) with 2 x20amp radials.

The immediate benefits are...


1) an extra 2kw capacity compared to the 32 amp ring

2) two circuits protecting kitchen rather than one

3) a maintenance free plugtop (fuses no longer necessary)
..... issues re heat dissapation sorted
..... Issues regarding wrong size fuse inserted sorted.
...... safety issues due to shorting out fuse sorted

4) electrical testing simplified (radials versus rings)

 

[nicebutdim]

Regardless of the relative merits or disadvantages, I don't think that getting rid of the BS1363 plug is a great suggestion.

The people of Ireland might be open to this suggestion, but there'd be revolt on the streets of GB.

 

[LastManOnline]

Regardless of the relative merits or disadvantages, I don't think that getting rid of the BS1363 plug is a great suggestion.

Not suggesting we get rid of it. Have already stated my personal preference for it. I firmly believe it should be retained. Just advocating "upgrading"

The people of Ireland might be open to this suggestion, but there'd be revolt on the streets of GB.

Believe me, my views are not overwhelmingly popular there (either). I was removed from 2 local electrical forums last year.

 

[static zap]

I was removed from 2 local electrical forums last year.

Oh dear , this forum was a bit .. Baptism of flaming bitumen in the past.
--We have a be nice policy now ! --
(observe how others behave , and be nice .. don't want to bust a Covid blood vessel , with ambulance waiting times )

 

[LastManOnline]

It says:

This hob is equipped with a UK 3 pin plug for an easy plug & play installation. The plug limits the maximum power output to 3.7 KW. For higher power output, please select a hob without plug and ensure installation is carried out by a qualified electrician

Anyway. Back to the thread. The above instructions are lifted directly from Bosch, s own struction manuel. I had a telephone and email exchange with them over the weekend. They confirmed that there is a power limiting device in the hob as Lucien suggested. There is however no mention of this device in the manuel (I stand to be corrected here). Regarding the 3700 watt max rating I raised the issue of a 15 amp load on a 13 amp fuse. However the service personnel could not offer any opinions on this

 

[nicebutdim]

Believe me, my views are not overwhelmingly popular there (either). I was removed from 2 local electrical forums last year.

I don't always always agree with you, but certainly like the manner in which your thinking is clearly laid out and the question you raise. No harm in challenging conventions, especially when reasons for that challenge are clear.


Should add that you also contribute significantly to the overall knowledge this forum allows me to tap into.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Replace the kitchen ring (plus other rings) with 2 x20amp radials.
The immediate benefits are...
1) an extra 2kw capacity compared to the 32 amp ring

This is a double-edged sword because of the loss of diversity. Yes the total load capacity is greater, but there is less flexibility about where the loads may be connected. With 20A circuits it is not nearly so much of a limitation as with 16A. It might take four or more of the latter to do the work of one 32A, if nuisance tripping and persistent non-trip overloads are to be avoided due to unfavourable distribution of load.

The above was another economic argument in favour of retaining local OCPD in the IEC60906 retrofit scenario, and mitigation of the admittedly high unit cost of my MCB-equipped sockets. Taking all the benefits into account, in principle I agree with @John-SJW on the advantages of the fuse, although I am rather less specifically in favour of BS1363 having spent a sizeable fraction of my life working with alternatives.

 

[Grant1987]

Not suggesting we get rid of it. Have already stated my personal preference for it. I firmly believe it should be retained. Just advocating "upgrading"

Believe me, my views are not overwhelmingly popular there (either). I was removed from 2 local electrical forums last year.

I like the fact that you voice your opinion and unless your comments are derogatory or insulting then you should not be removed from any forum. I like the debate and I believe we should be allowed to speak out so good on you keep it going ?