230V fan in Zone 1?

[jstephens251]

Hi all,

1st fixing a barn conversion at the mo


Builder has threw a spanner in the works and says the location of fan will now be in zone 1 near shower.

If it has to be selv then i will wire for a transformer. only snag is i allowed for standard fan and selv fan is a *** load more lol

the OSG says though minimum IPX5 with water jets and i was looking at this unit

XPELAIR DX100BT 100MM AXIAL BATHROOM FAN WITH TIMER. Free delivery! | eBay

what you reckon?

 

[Plonker 3]

I would say any alteration is chargeable, unless you were told otherwise when pricing for the job?

 

[simpson93]

as above.

 

[Farmelectrics]

It's an extra to me

 

[Plonker 3]

As long as the unit complies with the recommendation of BS7671 then I see no problem with fitting one.

 

[D Skelton]

230V ventilation gear is allowable in zone 1 as long as it is at least IP44 and the manufacturers instructions don't state that it isn't suitable for use in zone 1.

Double check your instructions and then carry on as normal.

Can no one read a book these days? It's written in black and white in section 701!

 

[overskilled]

The amount of builders though who claim "you can't do that" or "my spark wouldn't allow that" is unreal....if the regs allow it and it meets the requirements for water ingress protection....whats the problem....

 

[jstephens251]

230V ventilation gear is allowable in zone 1 as long as it is at least IP44 and the manufacturers instructions don't state that it isn't suitable for use in zone 1.

Double check your instructions and then carry on as normal.

Can no one read a book these days? It's written in black and white in section 701!

I referred to the OSG 1st as it's always to hand in the van

thanks for all comments


cheers

 

[spark 68]

230V ventilation gear is allowable in zone 1 as long as it is at least IP44 and the manufacturers instructions don't state that it isn't suitable for use in zone 1.

Double check your instructions and then carry on as normal.

Can no one read a book these days? It's written in black and white in section 701!

Hi D,
While that is true, a note accompanying that paragraph (GN7) states where the equipment is to be used where water jets are present (in that zone) then they shall have a IP of at least IPX5

Also no one has mentioned where Selv/Pelv fans are concerned the safety supply source shall be fitted outside of the zones.

 

[D Skelton]

Well if anyone is going to install a mains fan in a water jet then they're a moron! Lol. The only place where you're going to fit a fan is either on the wall or in the ceiling at a height above the shower head, in which case, IPX4 is all it needs be.

 

[Plonker 3]

Also no one has mentioned where Selv/Pelv fans are concerned the safety supply source shall be fitted outside of the zones.

I would like to think anyone with half a ounce of sense knows that anyway, or is that too much to ask????

 

[Plonker 3]

Well if anyone is going to install a mains fan in a water jet then they're a moron! Lol. The only place where you're going to fit a fan is either on the wall or in the ceiling at a height above the shower head, in which case, IPX4 is all it needs be.

Would you class a shower head with a removable hose as fixed though?

 

[D Skelton]

Yes, because if your intention is to detach it and then point and blast at a piece of electrical equipment then you deserve to be a in a body bag!

 

[Plonker 3]

Fair enough lol

 

[spark 68]

You can never tell on here Dilb lol (conversation re: 150m spur last night lol)

Here is the page D, you may interpret it differently to me, just I had a similar argument with a builder, I ended up fitting a Selv Fan lol

 

[Plonker 3]

Well that''s down to interpretation, as it says IPX4 unless it is likely to come into contact with spray e.g cleaning. Now how many people up and down the country would not use the shower head to clean the tiles down? Not saying they will spray directly at the fan but near to it.

 

[Richard Burns]

The fan identified in the OP is listed as IPX5 and so is suitable for use in zone one and in an area with water jets.

The thing to remember about water jets is that they are meant to be powerful and the spray head of a standard shower is not considered a water jet.
IPX4 means it can cope with splashed water from any direction so theoretically playing a shower on an IPX4 item should be safe ( I wouldn't risk it).
If you start considering the mobile spray head as the location of the shower then most of a small bathroom would be zone 1! It is the fixed outlet that is of relevance to the regs.

 

[spark 68]

The one I had was not a fixed head shower, so I basically covered my ---

Edit: Yep regs clear as mud as ever

 

[Plonker 3]

I took my interpretation from 701.512.2 where it merely says that sprays for cleaning purposes needs IP X5, but I am happy to be corrected.

 

[spark 68]

As you say, it boils down to interpretation, and what you are comfortable signing your name to.

IPX4 protected from water splashing for all directions

IPX5 protected from low pressure jets from all directions

IPX6 protected from high pressure jets from all directions

It is up to whoever is signing the paperwork to decide what a shower is classed as, not to really prove anyone is right or wrong, we will all have our own take on it.

 

[Geoffsd]

Don't forget electric showers, they're 240V, IPX4 and in zone 1.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Yes, because if your intention is to detach it and then point and blast at a piece of electrical equipment then you deserve to be a in a body bag!

I wouldn't call children morons, something else maybe...



edit, wrong quote, but...

 

[Plonker 3]

Don't forget electric showers, they're 240V, IPX4 and in zone 1.

Maybe, but playing devils advocate they are covered by manufacturers instructions rather than BS7671. Just like if a fans instruction manual says it is suitable for zone 1 of a bathroom, regardless of the IP rating

 

[spark 68]

To be fair I am not really comfortable fitting 230V fans in zone 1, particularly if it can be sprayed with the shower (kids might find that funny and a great game), so I would prefer to fit Selv, or if it really had to be 230V then IPX5 (unless the manufacture stated a particular type @ IPX4 was suitable for zone 1).

This is just my interpretation of things, and my personal opinion, others may well decide differently, me ? I prefer to err on the side of caution.

 

[Richard Burns]

1 Protected against vertically falling drops of water (condensation)
2 Protected against drops of water falling at up to 15 deg from the vertical
3 Protected against drops of water falling at up to 60 deg from the vertical
4 Protected against splashing of water from all directions
5 Protected against jets of water from all directions (12.5 mm core nozzle, 10 m head at 3m distance)
6 Protected against jets of water from all directions (12.5 mm core nozzle, 10 m head at 1.3 m distance)