2391 the changes, from the horses mouth at City and Guilds.

[SirKit Breaker]

Hello all,

I am now in possession of a circular from C&G detailing the changes to the short courses.

BS7671:2008 (2011) and City and Guilds qualifications.

Here goes.

How will the wiring regulation changes affect the 2391 inspection, testing and certification of electrical qualification?

The existing suite of 2391 qualifications will be replaced by the following qualifications

• 2394 Level 3 Initial Verification of Electrical Installations
• 2395 Level 3 Periodic Inspection, Testing and reporting of Electrical Installations
• 2396 Level 4 Design of Electrical Installations

Exact titles for qualifications are to be confirmed, and the above titles are given as an indication of content only. All the above qualifications are due to launch on November 26th 2011, and will be on the QCF (Qualification Framework Credit) and will be written in line with BS7671:2008 (2011)

How long will the 2391 qualifications remain?


2391 closes for new registrations on 31 December 2011, with a final certification date of 31 December 2013. dated entry exams will continue to be available until the summer of 2012, exact final dates of the 301 and 303 exams to be confirmed.

Which version of the regs should candidates apply knowledge of when undertaking 2391 assessments

Until 31 December 2011, candidates may answer to either the 2008 (Red Book) or 2011 (Green Book) version of the regs. After this date candidates must answer in line with the 2011 Amendment 1 version (Green Book).

Can 2391 units be used towards achievement of the 2394, 2395 or 2396?

It is not anticipated that candidates who hold 2391 units will be able to use these towards the new qualifications. Candidates who have achieved one of the 2391 units but not completed the full qualification should ensure that they complete the remaining unit prior to the final certification date.
Please note that the 2391-301 and 2391-303 exams are not likely to continue beyond mid 2012, although this is subject to demand. They may continue beyond this date, but with a reduced number of examinations per year.

There are also other changes to most of the short courses and a new Domestic NVQ diploma for Electricians only working in the domestic market, but the memo runs to 8 pages and i aint typing it all out. If you have any specific questions please post and ask DONT fill my inbox with PM's.

Cheers..........Howard

 

[darking]

My question is in the scope of the 2396 Design course. the 2391-20 course that I have is a level 3 qualification, which is hard work but doable as it was assignment based. for the 2396 to be a level 4 certificate, the bar must be higher.

Some of the guys 2391-20 assignment work was really classy with electro-cad design drawings, while my drawings were by hand and my calculations written out - theirs were done automatically by their cad programme!

will this sort of stuff be a requirement just to do the new quals?

 

[Engineer54]

My question is in the scope of the 2396 Design course. the 2391-20 course that I have is a level 3 qualification, which is hard work but doable as it was assignment based. for the 2396 to be a level 4 certificate, the bar must be higher.

Some of the guys 2391-20 assignment work was really classy with electro-cad design drawings, while my drawings were by hand and my calculations written out - theirs were done automatically by their cad programme!

will this sort of stuff be a requirement just to do the new quals?

Well done on getting your C&G 2391-20. Oh, and you probably did this course the correct way, believe me, if you can't do drawings and the accompanied calculations written out manually so to speak, then you you haven't really passed anything, as these programmes do everything for you. Any fool can pump in a few details, and the programme will do the rest. At least you know how to check any data on a computer screen when aren't exactly how they should be. It's very true when they say, ''a computer programme is only as good as the information it's given'' ..lol!!

It doesn't always follow that the latest course C&G 2396 will be any harder i'm afraid, as these days it seems they go the opposite way, to achieve the pass results, and have a further incentive of giving it a higher level grade to bring in the punters. You only have to look at the level grading of the Pat Testing C&G course set at level 3, to see the manipulation that going on these days.

It never used to be like this, but like everyone else, the C&G institute has jumped head first on the money train, which is not good news for the electrical industry, or come to that, ...any of the other vocational trades they presently cover certification wise....

 

[darking]

Thank you engineer54 I did feel at the time that my work was a bit shoddy compared with theirs, and the assessor there hinted that this might be the way forward for me, but your point is taken. with all the new quals i know of people doing a seven day installer course, 17th edition, the practical testing course, then cramming for 2391, and attempting the design course and crashing to earth. if they had used the cad stuff they could have become electrical whizz kids without an actual day on site

 

[Chr!s]

My question is in the scope of the 2396 Design course. the 2391-20 course that I have is a level 3 qualification, which is hard work but doable as it was assignment based. for the 2396 to be a level 4 certificate, the bar must be higher.

Some of the guys 2391-20 assignment work was really classy with electro-cad design drawings, while my drawings were by hand and my calculations written out - theirs were done automatically by their cad programme!

will this sort of stuff be a requirement just to do the new quals?

There are better design courses out there, if i was you i would decide what line of work you wish to develop.

 

[darking]

My line of work is Inspection and Testing, from domestic to industrial and i doubt that anyone can do this properly without a thorough understanding of the design requirements detailed in BS 7671.

I have kept up to date with every edition and update of the Regs and find that I still encounter installations that defy logic, whatever standard they were built to.