3 core - what colour do you use as a switch wire?

[thomas-1981]

Cable colours - IET Electrical Check out the flyer pdf. Black is not neutral.

 

[44ALLAN]

Cable colours - IET Electrical Check out the flyer pdf. Black is not neutral.

Who said Black was Neutral?
Blue is Neutral we all know that !!!

 

[Adam W]

So who can come up with any kind of argument for using black as switched live and brown as permanent, other than 'that's what you do'?

 

[thomas-1981]

Who said Black was Neutral?
Blue is Neutral we all know that !!!

Check out posts #3 & #5

 

[44ALLAN]

Check out posts #3 & #5

Ahhh but your missing the whole point thomas .......if you don't mind me saying.
As long as it's sleeved the same colour (at both ends) it won't be a black anymore..........it'll be blue if used as a neutral

 

[Fast&Rough]

I bought alot of r,y,b and red and black cable for cheap a few years ago and still install it . I'm such a rebel

 

[Tuttle]

I bought alot of r,y,b and red and black cable for cheap a few years ago and still install it . I'm such a rebel

Do you sleeve it brown, or red?

 

[SJD]

Check out posts #3 & #5

Ahhh but your missing the whole point thomas .......if you don't mind me saying.
As long as it's sleeved the same colour (at both ends) it won't be a black anymore..........it'll be blue if used as a neutral

As poster #3, of course I sleeve a neutral with blue, and a switched live with brown - and at both ends!

I checked my BS7671 and OSG, there didn't seem to be anything I could find to say it was wrong to be using the black in a 3-core brown/grey/black cable for neutral, so long as it is sleeved blue. Not sure if various bits of guidance around the time of the change over suggesting we should not do this carry any weight. But I'm happy to change if someone can point out a regulation or best practice I've overlooked.

 

[ian.settle1]

Ah, this old chestnut.

Black (sleeved brown) as permanent live, because that's how flex 7, rock etc flexes come pre-wired, and because you use brown as switched live everywhere else where you haven't got a permanent live so it keeps it consistent.
Brown as switched live as you usually would if there weren't a permanent live.
Grey (sleeved blue) as neutral.

Also because 4 core flex comes with brown, black, blue, and green & yellow.
Black as Auxiliary live.

Brown as L1 with the feed (also brown) so browns go together.
Grey as L2 (sleeved brown) with the switched live (blue, sleeved brown)
Black (sleeved brown) because it's the other one.

Going to say that myself as when you get pre wired kliks/gregs the black is normally the permanent live

 

[44ALLAN]

As poster #3, of course I sleeve a neutral with blue, and a switched live with brown - and at both ends!

I checked my BS7671 and OSG, there didn't seem to be anything I could find to say it was wrong to be using the black in a 3-core brown/grey/black cable for neutral, so long as it is sleeved blue. Not sure if various bits of guidance around the time of the change over suggesting we should not do this carry any weight. But I'm happy to change if someone can point out a regulation or best practice I've overlooked.

My sentiments exactly mate

 

[Eddiesparks]

Interesting point - surely black and grey, if used as strappers, dont need to be sleeved or taped brown as they are two of the possible three 'live' colours?!?! Is this wrong?!

 

[telectrix]

Interesting point - surely black and grey, if used as strappers, dont need to be sleeved or taped brown as they are two of the possible three 'live' colours?!?! Is this wrong?!

used to have same argument with red/yellow/blue. general opinion was treat any cable as live unless proved otherwise. sadly common sense is out the window these days, and we have to allow for idiots.

 

[Eddiesparks]

I'm with you but grey black brown are ALL BS7671 LIVE colours. Ok as strappers they are not three phase l1 l2 l3 but they are live colours. Not 'any colours' if you see what i mean mate.

 

[CTID]

In the end it falls into good practice and again shows the lack of clear definition in the regs. I don't see any issue with anyone using black or brown for permanent live, my personal choice is brown for perm, black for switched.
Where the lack of guidance shows up is on big sites with multiple sparks working on the same installation. It means that rather than being able to just get in and do the job, you are going around asking the colour codes that they have been using.
For example, I had to go around and fit some timer switches, all other accessories wired and fixed back so no visible wiring Barr for the cable I was to terminate, a three core. I spoke to the spark on site who informed me that brown was permanent live. I therefore went and terminated all 300 switches with brown as permanent. When it came to energisation it became apparent that 200 or so weren't working, the reason, another spark, now on holiday, had been on site and wired black as perm as this was what he always did, this obviously unknown until so many didn't work, thus a lot more work created putting right.
I understand we use sleeving to identify wiring, however we should also have a standard set as to what we use for perm or switch, neutral, etc, so that confusion is to a minimum.

 

[Eddiesparks]

In the end it falls into good practice and again shows the lack of clear definition in the regs. I don't see any issue with anyone using black or brown for permanent live, my personal choice is brown for perm, black for switched.
Where the lack of guidance shows up is on big sites with multiple sparks working on the same installation. It means that rather than being able to just get in and do the job, you are going around asking the colour codes that they have been using.
For example, I had to go around and fit some timer switches, all other accessories wired and fixed back so no visible wiring Barr for the cable I was to terminate, a three core. I spoke to the spark on site who informed me that brown was permanent live. I therefore went and terminated all 300 switches with brown as permanent. When it came to energisation it became apparent that 200 or so weren't working, the reason, another spark, now on holiday, had been on site and wired black as perm as this was what he always did, this obviously unknown until so many didn't work, thus a lot more work created putting right.
I understand we use sleeving to identify wiring, however we should also have a standard set as to what we use for perm or switch, neutral, etc, so that confusion is to a minimum.

My word, that would be well annoying!! I use brown perm and black switched. And then grey to link the commons.