3-Way Dimmer Dilemma

[Yukoner777]

You did this:

View attachment 84158


Do this:

View attachment 84159

I would if I could. I was hoping there might be a way without having to run an extra cable through the walls. There is a counter outlet within inches of Box 2. I guess I could get direct power for the switch from that outlet to run the fluorescent fixture. Although the counter outlets are by regulations supposed to be on their own breakers.

 

[Yukoner777]

AFAIK North American wiring practice has always been to loop at the switches, not the fittings.

His diagram exactly matches the description of how his lights behave.

We need him to return and confirm, but I'm pretty sure there is no permanent line at either light and there is no permanent line at Box 2.

That's right, the only power in Box 2 comes from the 3-way switch in Box 1.

 

[Yukoner777]

By the way...

You do realise that if you do that, and you turn the light on at Box 1, it will come on at whatever brightness the dimmer in Box 2 is set to?

Hence, my dilemma.

 

[Yukoner777]

Since I can't run another cable through the walls and I don't want to have a remote controller, I think what I'll do is replace the fluorescent fixture with a dimmable LED ceiling fixture. Then the dimmer switch will control the brightness of both sets of lights and the single-pole switch will simply turn the new fixture on or off.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Cheers

 

[Yukoner777]

Hence, my dilemma.

By the way...

You do realise that if you do that, and you turn the light on at Box 1, it will come on at whatever brightness the dimmer in Box 2 is set to?

Sorry, just reread your post. Yes, I do realize that. Not a problem as the switches are only 3 or 4 steps away from each other.

 

[westward10]

He isn't expressing the switch identification incorrectly. In the States and Canada our two way switch is their three way. They are identified by the number of terminals and not their function, an intermediate is known as four way.

 

[Darkwood]

He isn't expressing the switch identification incorrectly. In the States and Canada our two way switch is their three way. They are identified by the number of terminals and not their function, an intermediate is known as four way.

So if i fit a brass switch do I add a extra way for the earth terminal ?... crazy logic to go by no' of terminals because you can fit 2way and intermediate switches (in our speak) to work a 1 way circuit which we do if we have run out of 1ways on site etc ... now it still wouldn't be confusing here but over there it would mess up the logic of what is been described.
I think the US and Canada need a hard look at itself in the mirror and start using logical language ??

 

[Darkwood]

Simply out of curiosity then - how do you describe a lighting circuit that is been controlled by 1 sw, 2 sw points and 3 switch points given the various ways you can achieve this using switches.. and how do you differentiate he no' of switch on each plate as we use 'gang' to denote that.

 

[westward10]

Our one way is their two way, our two way is their three way and our two way with intermediate is their four way. I am not sure how they denote "gang".

 

[Lucien Nunes]

It used to be possible to get dimmers with both a fixed and variable output. I.e. there is a tap-off between the 3-way switch and the dimmer electronics, that responds to the switch but not the dimmer level. If you can find one of these, the fixed output could feed the fluorescent while the variable output feeds the LEDs.

Alternatively, if you have space, you could use a regular dimmer control independent of the 3-way switching, i.e. just added inline with the LED while retaining the existing 3-way switch and its connection to the fluorescent.

The best method would be to upgrade both ends of the 3-way with a smart dimmer at box 2 and a remote control for it at box 1. Instead of two travelers, this normally only needs one and a permanent hot at both ends. Therefore what is now the black traveler gets re-connected as a hot feed, which is then available at box 2 to power the fluorescent via its own switch instead of through the 3-way.

Re terminology, each language and design standard has its own quirks. Some terms make more sense in one language, some in others, some are modern and some are antiquated, just like the designs of fittings. Is the uniquely British term 'consumer unit' actually meaningful if you don't know what it is? The US-English equivalent 'electrical panel' is much more sensible.

 

[westward10]

I am wondering where the neutrals are or whether for clarity he has deliberately omitted them. Assuming that is a cable like Romex between box 1 and box 2 there should be a white core as it only shows black and red travelers.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

You would imagine so, but it makes no difference to the solution. Although if going with my smart dimmer suggestion having the neutral available widens the choice of suitable products.

 

[westward10]

If there is a unused white which there probably isn't it could be used as a hot to the two way for the fluorescent.

 

[Yukoner777]

I won't be surprised if I'm way out to lunch here, but I'm gonna throw out this idea anyway, at the risk of ridicule. Since current would flow through either the red or black traveller wires (but not both at the same time), could I not pigtail off both of them in Box 2 and use that to feed the single-pole switch, rather than using the output from the dimmer to feed the single-pole switch? Still a 50/50 chance I'd have to flip the 3-way switch first, but I'd be able to power the fluorescent with fixed output.

 

[Darkwood]

It can be done with a little control circuit but then the cost implications outway actually rectifying the original problem and since you are not set on sorting out the original issue then creating more work at a bigger cost is not viable.