3A fuse for bathroom fan

[wiresnpliers]

Hi All,

Like many practicing electricians I have been frustrated that there is not a simple solution when wiring a bathroom fan with timer and the manufacturer's instructions say that it must be fused with one 3 amp fuse. I believe I have come up with the solution, which I have patented, what I'm struggling with (because I'm a sparks, not a manufacturer) is how to get this thing made, or if it was made, whether anyone would use it. I've attached the wiring diagram, which is pretty self explanatory. Feed back and/or any ways into manufacturing would be appreciated!

 

[snowhead]

Not wanting to squash your dreams of retiring to your own Island somewhere in the World, but I suspect if there was a market for it, then with all the accessory manufacturers that there are, I'm sure one would already have produced it.

It took Dyson over 20 years, a lot of rejections and a lot of money trying to get his idea to market, but look where he is now.

Your biggest hurdle is getting it into production without infringing any other patents, like how the switch contacts move, style of switch etc.

You'll need to employ a Product Design Consultant, who can put the idea into something that can actually be manufactured.

You've got several options,
Sell the patent to a manufacturer.
Prove a market and then sell.
Produce a prototype, test it and then sell.
Get it produced prove sales and then sell.
Licence it to a manufacturer or other agent.

Each step further you take will cost 10's or hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Good luck.

 

[timhoward]

I like it and I'd use it.
Random thought - it might be worth talking to Flex7, the people who make the Quickwire products under license. They are UK based and still small enough to not be unreachable.

About

Established in 1998, Flex7 is a British company that design and manufacture lighting connection & control products.

www.flex7.co.uk

 

[DPG]

I'd speak to the likes of MK and Click etc. See if they are interested in buying the patent. You may well find they've considered something like this but they don't think there's a market for it.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Aggre with the above. With a single initial offering of a product, useful though it might be, it will be almost impossible to compete with established firms offering complete ranges that sell hundreds of thousands of units per annum. Buyers will want to spec items from existing ranges, for matching appearance, trusted quality etc.

Your aim is therefore to convince the bean counters of its utility, rather than sparks, so a different set of factors might come into play. E.g. one manufacturer buys exclusive rights so that other manufacturers don't have something in their ranges that the first has not got. They might not actually make it if they don't think the volume sales are there, but they have control of it. You might never see one in real life.

 

[Ian1981]

Click Scolmore already product such a product

 

[wiresnpliers]

Not wanting to squash your dreams of retiring to your own Island somewhere in the World, but I suspect if there was a market for it, then with all the accessory manufacturers that there are, I'm sure one would already have produced it.

It took Dyson over 20 years, a lot of rejections and a lot of money trying to get his idea to market, but look where he is now.

Your biggest hurdle is getting it into production without infringing any other patents, like how the switch contacts move, style of switch etc.

You'll need to employ a Product Design Consultant, who can put the idea into something that can actually be manufactured.

You've got several options,
Sell the patent to a manufacturer.
Prove a market and then sell.
Produce a prototype, test it and then sell.
Get it produced prove sales and then sell.
Licence it to a manufacturer or other agent.

Each step further you take will cost 10's or hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Good luck.

Thanks for the feedback. Any "no win, no fee" product design consultants out there?

 

[wiresnpliers]

Click Scolmore already product such a product

It doesn't have the light switch on the plate, which allows for the 3 core cabling from the light, to the switch unit, to the fan. Having a fuse next to the fan on a plate doesn't solve the problem of how to fuse both the L and the SL using the same fuse, without extra faffing about.

 

[wiresnpliers]

I like it and I'd use it.
Random thought - it might be worth talking to Flex7, the people who make the Quickwire products under license. They are UK based and still small enough to not be unreachable.

About

Established in 1998, Flex7 is a British company that design and manufacture lighting connection & control products.

www.flex7.co.uk

Thanks for the lead and positive feedback.

 

[polaroid]

Your patent needs to be water tight otherwise a few small changes would allow a copy to be made by a main manufacturer, undercut you and destroy your investment.

 

[brianmoooore]

..........doesn't solve the problem of how to fuse both the L and the SL using the same fuse, without extra faffing about.

Not really necessary to fuse the switched live. It's only a control wire, and normally connects directly to a high value resistor. No chance of overload, so SC protection only required, which is provided by the circuit fuse at the origin.
Permanent live will be subject to overload under certain fault conditions, hence the 3A fuse.

 

[wiresnpliers]

Not really necessary to fuse the switched live. It's only a control wire, and normally connects directly to a high value resistor. No chance of overload, so SC protection only required, which is provided by the circuit fuse at the origin.
Permanent live will be subject to overload under certain fault conditions, hence the 3A fuse.

Most manufacturers provide instructions (and/or diagrams) requiring one 3A fuse protecting both the L and SL. It's the compliance with instructions (and hence Regs) that outweighs the opinion on whether protecting the SL is necessary.

 

[brianmoooore]

I remember a gas boiler where the manufacture's instructions specify a fuse in both the live and neutral, so not always.

 

[wiresnpliers]

I remember a gas boiler where the manufacture's instructions specify a fuse in both the live and neutral, so not always.

I agree that sometimes we see all sorts of strange instructions, particularly those lost in translation, however on this one there is a consistency across most manufacturers. The point being if something should ever go wrong, proving compliance with instructions would be far more the simplest option, in the litigious world we live in.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

One obstacle that might have dissuaded many electrical accessory manufacturers from tooling up for this, is that its usefulness hinges on the fan manufacturers' rather daft policy of making installers jump through hoops simply to save £0.10 on the price of a fan. That is a realistic price, in quantity, for a suitable fuse added to the PCB. There's no point having it separately replaceable because it should only blow if the motor is destroyed; they are normally impedance protected against being mechanically stalled. Therefore once one major manufacturer decides to take advantage of this, adds the fuse and heavily promotes their fans to installers as being internally fused, others may follow and the specialised fused fan isolator will be redundant.

 

[wiresnpliers]

One obstacle that might have dissuaded many electrical accessory manufacturers from tooling up for this, is that its usefulness hinges on the fan manufacturers' rather daft policy of making installers jump through hoops simply to save £0.10 on the price of a fan. That is a realistic price, in quantity, for a suitable fuse added to the PCB. There's no point having it separately replaceable because it should only blow if the motor is destroyed; they are normally impedance protected against being mechanically stalled. Therefore once one major manufacturer decides to take advantage of this, adds the fuse and heavily promotes their fans to installers as being internally fused, others may follow and the specialised fused fan isolator will be redundant.

Some fans are already internally fused and marketed as such, but the innovation hasn't cornered the market to stop the hoop jumping.

 

[DPG]

Have you done market research of end users, ie householders? Have you confirmed that they would they be happy with that as a light switch?

And what about pull cord light switches?

 

[wiresnpliers]

Have you done market research of end users, ie householders? Have you confirmed that they would they be happy with that as a light switch?

And what about pull cord light switches?

Pull cords used to be popular in bathrooms, and above beds, personally I can't remember the last time a customer wanted one when they have a new bathroom. A customer led innovation? No. But then who asks a customer if they would prefer a fan isolator, a fuse and a light switch on separate plates cluttered around the bathroom/loo door?

 

[MJPD29]

Click Scolmore already product such a product

Never seen one of these before. Great idea

 

[Risteard]

Click Scolmore already product such a product

As do M2.

 

[wiresnpliers]

As do M2.

Thanks, the M2 one and Scolmore one comprise a fan isolator plus fuse (no light switch). Having an integrated light switch in my unit enables the simple wiring to fuse both the L and SL. Only putting a fuse and a fan switch together is still a faff to wire the L and SL.

 

[brianmoooore]

I can't see the attraction of a combined isolator, fuse and light switch. The only thing I want 1200mm off the floor inside the door of my bathroom are the switches I'm likely to need when I use the room for one or more of its intended purposes. These are typically a two or three switches for lights, possibly a separate switch for an extractor fan (with neon), if the room has an opening window, and maybe switches for a towel rail and UFH.
The isolator for the fan, and for anything else that needs an isolator can go high up outside the door, where they don't detract from the decor of the bathroom.
My own preference for a fan isolator/fuse, is to use a DP isolator and fuse, and feed the main light of the bathroom through it, as well as the fan, to discourage people (especially tenants), from turning the fan off and leaving it off.

 

[littlespark]

Cant you build this product yourself from grid modules?

 

[MJPD29]

Cant you build this product yourself from grid modules?

Yes you can

 

[Ian1981]

Cant you build this product yourself from grid modules?

Exactly this, plus click do a 3 gang module system to fit a single box