4 Week sparks

[rmaynard]

dont mean to cause a fight but what is the hype around the "4 week sparks"? i am myself retraining and have a done short courses, 3 days for my 17th and 4 weeks for my 2391. it just seems to me a lot of the blokes are against it, i do understand that a lot of timed sparks will be annoyed that people can become registered sparks overnight but i think the taring with the same brush is a bit off. i am starting the domestic installer vrq in july thus completing the basic steps to get registered with nic but dont think that makes me a bad electrician.

Rant over

Rob

 

[rmaynard]

i done my 2391 seperate, iv been told i might be able to skip level 2 and go straight for level 3 because of the knowledge and quals i already have?

Rob

 

[millwall ken]

i appreciate that but not all people that attend the short courses are virgin electricians, myself and the blokes on the 2391 last year were experienced, paid sparks. i do admit that some people that do the short courses are possibly dangerous but for the most its just a chance to catch up with quals.

Rob

'I do admit that some people that do the short courses are possibly dangerous'
There you go then fella, you've answered your own question as to why time served sparks have no time for these fly-on-the-wall courses.

 

[rmaynard]

'I do admit that some people that do the short courses are possibly dangerous'
There you go then fella, you've answered your own question as to why time served sparks have no time for these fly-on-the-wall courses.

still no reasont to tar tho is it? Iv seen some shocking work, excuse the pun, by time served sparks.

Rob

 

[millwall ken]

still no reasont to tar tho is it? Iv seen some shocking work, excuse the pun, by time served sparks.

Rob

Rob, who do you want in the trenches with you mate? Battle tested vets or the saturday and sunday lot? Sure you will see mistakes made by time served sparks. But I know whom I'd want to work with.
Crap analogy, I know...........

 

[tonys]

true but a lot just go into the self employed/domestic market and work cheaply and dangerously.

Rob

That's why I'm glad I'm back into Commercial/Industrial, and that's the advantage the older more experienced Electrician as over the new guys who only get to see T+E and Consumer Units.

 

[DaveyD]

Interesting discussion.
Over confidence and complacency. That's a potential danger with "time served"
Also as one who has been to college on other trades/skills one can spend a lot of time wasted waiting for the teacher to see your work/answer your question in a large class. I learned on a one to one, that was more productive for ME than a class of many members. I think a day per week for a year would have not given me as much as I learned. Just adding my opinion guys.

Kind Regards
David

 

[malcolmsanford]

That's why I'm glad I'm back into Commercial/Industrial, and that's the advantage the older more experienced Electrician as over the new guys who only get to see T+E and Consumer Units.

And borrowing a neutral on 2 way, T that is a domestics sparks favourite.

 

[i=p/u]

scares me malcolm , havent came across it yet,

 

[tonys]

And borrowing a neutral on 2 way, T that is a domestics sparks favourite.

Malc, Ive checked on a domestic sparks bonding only to find the pipe still covered in gloss paint, they don't even know what bonding is for? Being a QS was not worth the hassle.

 

[malcolmsanford]

scares me malcolm , havent came across it yet,

Naw you'll be alright, it's a good wake up device for a monday morning after a heavy weekend, starts the heart pumping.

All jokes asidee I'll be amazed if any sparks as not fell foul of a borrowed neutral it's is just the joys of the game, like hot and itchy lofts, cold and wet pump rooms, and putting trunking lid on with a hammer and a bit of 2" X 1"

 

[SMB]

Who would bond a gas or water pipe and not remove the paint from it first?

The mind boggles.

I feel sick again.

 

[DurhamSparky]

rmaynard

im in similar situation..! left navy as a Electrical Mechanical Technician with no equivilent civvy quals in electrics other than Pat testing (2377)!! (i do have a recognised engineering apprentiship and mechanical NVQ from Navy!

i my self invested time and effort of 3 years to obtain

Site experience with a well know local housing association in durham (working for free)
a Level 3 Quailifcation in Electrical Installation
2391 inspection and testing
2356 NVQ 3
2382 17th edition

i also now hold HV authorised person status at my curent job and looking into doing the 2391 20 and HNC

i obtain all of them before leaving the Navy so i was lucky! i dont consider my self a 5 day wonder by any imagination but neither do i class my self as a time served sparky...! im an ex military Technician with a vast range of skills and ability's!! (how many 5 day wonders or Time served sparkys can say they used to be responsible for operating a self sufficient operation from Nuclear power generation and Diesel Power Generation to Electrical User and Maintainer!)

i have 3 phase experience including fault finding on motors, cabinets, distribution circuits and small power circuits! but i never bent conduit or chased walls out ever! do it make me less of a person than a fully time served spark who was abused as a apprentice by the plasterers and brickies!!

i don't hold contempt for sparks who did 4 weeks but i do get annoyed when they aim for things beyond there scale capability and tut and moan at every one else for telling them what exactly they are!

p.s my mate did a fast track course similar to rmaynard and he was ex Navy also working on Harriers so he also had a Engineering Apprenticship in aviation electrics/ mechnaics , he now works as a Maintenance Sparky for a FM company and is no way any diferent from time served spark!

 

[tonys]

Durham

Yourve more than likely got more technical ability and skills than most sparks, me included. Have a mate who came out of the army, I know he done some sort of electrics/higher education qualifications hnc. He lives in Plymouth and works on the nuclear subs, he's also studying social science with the OU for an open degree. Not bad for ex army.

 

[tonys]

Who would bond a gas or water pipe and not remove the paint from it first?

The mind boggles.

I feel sick again.

Guys who just don't have an interest in their work, so much in why am I doing this attitude but want my money at the end of the week!

 

[bobcat1]

I signed up just to put in my 2 cents to this discussion.

While I'm not technically a "4 week spark" I have managed to get to Part P registration extremely quickley.

I decided to change careers to be a spark, so I signed up to 2330 L2 full time course.
I did this for the whole year along with a class full of 16 year olds.
My main goal was to be qualified asap, because I took a massive wage hit going from a real wage to a weekend job wage.
I finished Level 2 with distinctions all round. Me and my tutor got on really well and became friends. He then gave me advise for work I wanted to do for family over summer, which were garden installations and needed SWA and cable calcs.
After doing these, this was when I realised, I didn't need "training".
As I went into Level 3, I got a job with a company as a trainee for crap money, and learnt basic things about houses and building structures. Nothing about electrics, because unlike many electricians, I was able to match theory with the practical from day 1. Many electricians I've met disregard the theory as "college crap you don't need on site". But I've come to learn this is because they don't actually understand what it is they're doing, they just know how to put a wire in a wall and terminate it.
This is why when lots of the replies I've read are "you don't learn till you're on site" anger me. After a few months, I realised I was actually better than the electricians I worked with. Most didn't know how to fill out the certs, didn't understand the results they were putting in etc.
I'm in the middle of Level 3, where I'm not struggling, did my 17th and got Part P with no problems.
I've done all this in a year and a half.
I don't feel like I need any training domestically

Commercially and Industrially, I will become an apprentice, because that is slightly different.
but tbh domestic doesn't really need a brain.

I don't mean to sound up my own arse here, but I wanted to tell my story because I dislike the opinion that college teaches you nothing

College teaches you everything, it's how you receive it