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Pretty Mouth

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I visited a client about a week ago, an elderly couple complaining that their lounge, hall and landing lights were all flickering simultaneously with a noticeable buzzing noise. When I arrived the lights appeared to be working ok (I asked them to switch them off until I could attend), so an intermittent fault. Opening up accessories revealed the likely culprit - aluminium conductors, the first time I have come across these.

Some observations:
House built 1973
1mm² (or so I believe, next time I'll measure w/ micrometer) single solid strands
Dull silver appearance, brighter when cut.
Not copper clad aluminium, not tinned copper.
Very soft and supple compared to copper.
Higher resistance values vs copper
Prone to breaking off where screwed at the terminations.
It was hard to get a clean reading by testing continuity with the probe placed directly on the bare conductors (CPCs were unsheathed), the reading would jump around constantly in the range of a couple of ohms. I presume this is due to the insulating oxide layer aluminium is said to form. Clipping a jump lead to the conductor and testing to that gave a steady reading, as did testing to the brass terminal where soundly terminated.
Other circuits in the house are, at a glance, aluminium also.

I did what I could in the time I had available - I went through the circuit (downstairs lights) checking and tightening everything, found several conductors broken or very nearly broken at the screws so reterminated those, and ended up with satisfactory R1+R2 vs RN+R2 results. Borrowed neutral on landing light as you would expect for a property of that age.

Anyway, received another call from them on Christmas eve, they had noticed a small flash and pop! from one of the bedroom wall lights when switched on. Also switching on say the main bedroom light would cause a momentary flicker on the landing lights. He also told me they had an intermittent problem in the past with the bathroom light flickering, and certain sockets sparking when switched on. Advised not to use dodgy lights and sockets until I can get to them in a day or 2.

The place is obviously due a rewire, and that's what I will recommend. In the meantime, I'll need to make good any problems. I understand standard accessories are not to be used with aluminium conductors. Apparently some Wagos can be used on aluminium conductors when used in conjunction with the Alu-plus paste:


I was thinking of using this to connect a length of copper conductor to the ends of the aluminium conductors, then terminating the copper in the accessories. I have reservations though, I suspect the 1mm² aluminium will be too soft and bendy to force into a wago 773.

What have other members of the forum done in these circumstances and what would you recommend? As always, all information gratefully received :)
 
When you think about it, that wiring is almost 50 years old, it would not be unreasonable to suggest a rewire.

As it is old aluminium wiring which has been known to fracture at bends or otherwise deteriorate then I agree, a rewire should be considered.
However if this was copper wiring I wouldn't be so sure, being 50 years old on its own wouldn't be reason enough to rewire.
 
Totally, if the reading are good, then why replace it,

That's not quite what I said, there's more to consider than just readings, tests only tell you a small part of the story. I find too much faith is put in the idea that passing a test makes everything safe, a twist and tape joint will generally pass testing.

I said being 50 years old on its own isn't a reason to rewire.
 
But that is impossible to ever know how a circuit is constructed. But after 50 years of being in a house, and having people add to the circuit and take away parts. Which I Would put money on it that people have played around with it, you can’t go around ripping up the floor in someone house to have a look, so you have to go on something and you go by what the reading tell you. If the reading are clear, let’s say above 20Meg for example. Your R1/R2 are correct, other than looking at as much as you can see, That’s about it.
[automerge]1577392865[/automerge]
You are correct in saying age is not something to go by.
 
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I agree that a rewire would be for the best, hopefully they can afford it. As it stands I cannot say for certain that it has ever complied with the regulations, and I can find no data for current carrying capacity. Does anyone know if aluminium conductors would have the same CCC as copper clad aluminium conductors?
 
I agree that a rewire would be for the best, hopefully they can afford it. As it stands I cannot say for certain that it has ever complied with the regulations, and I can find no data for current carrying capacity. Does anyone know if aluminium conductors would have the same CCC as copper clad aluminium conductors?
I'd imagine they have a lower capacity as aluminium has a higher resistance than copper
 
Rewire the house.

Old solid aluminium conductors in domestic final circuit sizes will be a compliance nightmare with many, if not all terminations in modern electrical accessories not being suitable.

Old aluminium wiring is also a much higher fire risk in general.

If you really have to do repairs then maybe look on the USA version of ebay for bi-metallic ferrules and oxide inhibitor paste because solid aluminium house wiring was used more in the US than in the UK. If you're putting aluminium solid wire into a screw or cage termination then be aware it's as likely to fail because of overtightning as it is with undertightning.
 
Copper plated aluminium and aluminium cables were all around the same, plated was ever so slightly lower, I think 1.5mm2 was 11A, and 2.5mm2 was 15A - clipped direct twin and T&E hence all the rings had to be in 4mm2 which was 19A

Only MK made fittings that were suitable - they clamped the cable and could take 2x4mm2, everything else was either too small or just used a screw - the aluminium flowed, oxidised and lost proper contact.

These were removed from the 14th in the 1976 ammendment, I think it was table 24M

But the smallest used was 1.5mm2 - I think the imperial 14th which was pre '70/72 may have had smaller cables!

As has been said, it needs a rewire, sounds like the cables have reached their end of life, once they start breaking, you will be forever repairing them!
 
Agree - lighting circuits usually 1.5mm², nearest equivalent to 1.0mm² copper.
Rings 4.0mm², ditto 2.5mm² copper.

You can spot the MK fittings that were designed for aluminium because they have rising clamp terminals like DIN rail terminals or MCBs. I have some in use at home although not on Al cables; they are good terminals for any cable.

I was thinking of using this to connect a length of copper conductor to the ends of the aluminium conductors
a.k.a. 'Pigtailing' in the USA, where Al cables are much more common and this task arises more often.

Let me know if you get the rewire job. I am eager to get some good lengths of Al cable for the displays and demonstrations. I can convert it into your choice of beverage...
 
Only MK made fittings that were suitable - they clamped the cable and could take 2x4mm2, everything else was either too small or just used a screw - the aluminium flowed, oxidised and lost proper contact.
!


I have an MEM type socket in use here with clamp terminals, and also have a Britmac brand single which uses the same clamp mechanism. So I suspect there were some. Competitors!
 
Evening all. First, a big thank you to you all for your comments and advice, it has all been really helpful.

I went to visit the job this afternoon. When I arrived, some of the lights (downstairs circuit) weren't working at all. Tried a few switches, then some lights started flickering, then came on full. Opened up accessories and a number of conductors had broken at their terminals, several being ones I had terminated myself last visit. @Marvo , you were spot on, the aluminium conductors do not tolerate being over tightened at all.

As a temporary fix I have used Wago 773s to join the ally conductors together and 'pigtail' a length of copper to terminate in the screw terminals of the accessories. The ally wires went into the wagos easier than I expected, and continuity was apparently sound after the fix. I imagine if the Alu-plus paste was used, this could be a good fix if anyone else comes across this problem.

Before I left I quickly tested the other aluminium circuits. The cooker circuit (10mm ally) tested fine, but the ring final (4mm) had problems end-to-end; 1400ish ohms on neutral and OC on earth. I assume this has been a long term fault as the breaker has been down rated to 20A by the previous spark. I'll have to take a look it it next week.

Anyway, the good news is they want to go ahead with a rewire in February, so there will be plenty of salvaged cable for you @Lucien Nunes .
[automerge]1577474038[/automerge]
I measured the lighting conductor with a micrometer, it was indeed 1mm². A few photos:
[ElectriciansForums.net] 70s house, aluminium conductors
[ElectriciansForums.net] 70s house, aluminium conductors
[ElectriciansForums.net] 70s house, aluminium conductors
[ElectriciansForums.net] 70s house, aluminium conductors
[ElectriciansForums.net] 70s house, aluminium conductors
[ElectriciansForums.net] 70s house, aluminium conductors
[ElectriciansForums.net] 70s house, aluminium conductors
[ElectriciansForums.net] 70s house, aluminium conductors
 
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Evening all. First, a big thank you to you all for your comments and advice, it has all been really helpful.

I went to visit the job this afternoon. When I arrived, some of the lights (downstairs circuit) weren't working at all. Tried a few switches, then some lights started flickering, then came on full. Opened up accessories and a number of conductors had broken at their terminals, several being ones I had terminated myself last visit. @Marvo , you were spot on, the aluminium conductors do not tolerate being over tightened at all.

As a temporary fix I have used Wago 773s to join the ally conductors together and 'pigtail' a length of copper to terminate in the screw terminals of the accessories. The ally wires went into the wagos easier than I expected, and continuity was apparently sound after the fix. I imagine if the Alu-plus paste was used, this could be a good fix if anyone else comes across this problem.

Before I left I quickly tested the other aluminium circuits. The cooker circuit (10mm ally) tested fine, but the ring final (4mm) had problems end-to-end; 1400ish ohms on neutral and OC on earth. I assume this has been a long term fault as the breaker has been down rated to 20A by the previous spark. I'll have to take a look it it next week.

Anyway, the good news is they want to go ahead with a rewire in February, so there will be plenty of salvaged cable for you @Lucien Nunes .
[automerge]1577474038[/automerge]
I measured the lighting conductor with a micrometer, it was indeed 1mm². A few photos:View attachment 54897View attachment 54898View attachment 54899View attachment 54900View attachment 54901View attachment 54902View attachment 54903View attachment 54904
Are you measuring the csa….or the diameter?
 

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