A good example why not to use a Twist connector!

[timbobelfast]

Found this badboy this afternoon after someone reported a break down in the kitchen area.

 

[sparks1973]

The problem with forums is that you never know if the people posting comments are doing so for purely malicious reasons!
I work for IDEAL INDUSTRIES the world's largest manufacturer of wiring connectors (twist-on, push-in, crimps, etc) and have been one of the guys promoting twist-on wire connectors in the UK. I know that I am setting myself up by joining this forum, but I'd like to set a few things straight:-

1). Firstly, I cannot tell if this particular connector is manufactured by IDEAL or not. Unfortunately our connectors (like Wago) have been knocked-off by numerous Asian suppliers and quite often the quality of these connectors is poor. All IDEAL's connectors are manufactured to the highest quality standards in our US factories and if this is an IDEAL wire connector we would like it back so that a full investigation into why it melted can take place.
2). In my career I have seen quite a few burnt connectors. In the main these have been terminal blocks, but I have also seen heat damage to most types of connector in the market. Loose connections, connectors used with wrong size wiring, broken wires, fine stranded wire inserted into push-in's can all cause overheating or arcing. In N. America and internationally, IDEAL sells billions of twist-on wire connectors per year and in the 11 years that I have worked for the company I am not aware of a single fire caused by one of our connectors. Installed properly, modern twist-on wire connectors are one of the safest ways of joining wires.
3). IDEAL's twist-on connectors fully conform to EN 60998-1:2004 and EN 60998-2-4:2005. These are the connecting device standards that all wiring connectors have to meet for CE requirements. In the case of IDEAL's connectors we also put all our connectors through full 3rd party certification which provides independant proof of compliance. By complying with these standards our connectors fully meet the requirements of BS 7671:2008 (17th Edition).
4). Before marketing twist-on wire connectors in the UK we worked with both the Electrical Safety Council and the NICEIC. Both bodies are happy for electricians to use twist-on wire connectors in the UK, providing they are installed in accordance with current regulations i.e. inside an enclosure where required.
5). In the 9 months that we have been selling these connectors, numerous electricians, several large contractors, housing associations and district councils have installed these connectors without incidence. They are nothing like the old ceramic Scruit connectors of the past, mainly due to the conical square edged spring that is welded inside the plastic connector cap. This spring grips the wires and does not relax over time.

We know that twist-on connectors are Marmite, so we are happy for electricians to use our 32A rated push-in connectors or the new SpliceLine in-line push-in connector instead. Twist-on's do however offer some advantages over other connectors e.g. higher current rating, IP55 rating on some models, accept solid and stranded wire and are reuseable. Thanks.

well i was shown a `wago` that wasn`t just the other day that had failed....initially difficult to spot but upon closer inspection you could tell it was an impostor...our far eastern brethen were responsible for it methinks.....

 

[Guitarist]

well i was shown a `wago` that wasn`t just the other day that had failed....initially difficult to spot but upon closer inspection you could tell it was an impostor...our far eastern brethen were responsible for it methinks.....

It's a shame that people even buy these rubbish imposters, just to save a few quid.

 

[Paul.M]

@ IDEAL. I think its great that an electrical manufacturer has joined the forum to answer our questions/doubts about their product. I believe the poster is from IDEAL after speaking to them at recent elex shows, the terminology is exactly the same on here as it was face to face.

I like the way you put it "marmite". A lot of people haven't tried your product yet, is it possible for members to private message you with their address and you send them a sample pack? Let them make their own mind up and post up any questions to you?

Ps welcome to the forum.

 

[Elektrikas]

It`s funny because this twist connectors in Lithuania is presented like very good, but electricians not using them because they are to expensive

 

[stonejenson]

well i cant see it Lenny...after all the jury is still out on wago`s isn`t it and they are clearly better than this....

Check out their site info http://www.wago.ltd.uk/pdfs/InstallerGuide.pdf

 

[Spark1979]

Never used the twisters but seen them on display at wholesalers and don't like the look of them. I do use the ideal push connectors and find them really good and quick can't see the need for twisters as the push connectors are MF any way, would like to see what ideal expect us to put them as at present only seems to be line enclosures which meet regs

 

[Guitarist]

Do the Ideal connectors comply with MF requirements?

 

[Guest111]

Do the Ideal connectors comply with MF requirements?

according to their book the twisters comply with BS7671 and the push ins to BS7671 and classed as maintenance free post no 61

 

[LineProducts]

according to their book the twisters comply with BS7671 and the push ins to BS7671 and classed as maintenance free post no 61

I have been banging my drum about this type of misleading information for a while now. The IDEAL push in connectors are marked MF (in literature and on the box) ..... BUT not MF BS5733 (they do not meet BS5733).

IDEAL are not alone in doing this with the likes of WAGO, Chocbox, HAGER, Click etc all on the bandwagon. As they are not saying, in this case, MF BS5733 trading standards can not do anything about it.

The ESC, NICEIC etc are also not interested in doing anything to pressurise manufacturers to do something about it (or train their assessors to recognise those products that do not meet bs7671) - they also don't think it's their responsibility to communicate this to their members! (I am sure I read somewhere that they exist to oversee a higher standard and safer installations but I must have been wrong)

So, as always, it's the trade that is conned but, pays the registration fees yet has to bare the responsibility should anything go wrong with the installation!

 

[Spark1979]

Would like to hear ideals come back from that post, bending of the rules I think. Also line why do none of the big wholesalers sell your stuff ie Neweys, I work labour only at present so cant get your stuff as client only wants to use his existing accounts

 

[LineProducts]

Would like to hear ideals come back from that post, bending of the rules I think. Also line why do none of the big wholesalers sell your stuff ie Neweys, I work labour only at present so cant get your stuff as client only wants to use his existing accounts

Its a an ongoing battle. They won't stock unless the customers want etc,etc. The bigger groups also get political and need 10 layers to sign off before going ahead. CEF is growing steadily and can order in from other branches. Senate will order in. I think I should offer you guys a commission for getting us into some of these places?

 

[Spark1979]

It's a bit mych then when ideal say their maintenance free and have an mf logo on their box. Surely that is misleading then

 

[Guitarist]

Its a an ongoing battle. They won't stock unless the customers want etc,etc. The bigger groups also get political and need 10 layers to sign off before going ahead. CEF is growing steadily and can order in from other branches. Senate will order in. I think I should offer you guys a commission for getting us into some of these places?

You know that we fly the flag whenever we can at the wholesalers, but it's really hard when most electricians are still ordering the awful old JB's and don't know any different. I think a big feature in PE on the benefits of your products would help a lot. I don't know anyone who would go back to JB's once they've used your enclosures and kits, but getting them to try in the first place is the problem. What is the first thing I walk in to when I go to Edmunsons? Ideal twist connectors is what!

 

[Engineer54]

They are usually used in wiring connection inside washing machine.

Never seen them in any washing machine i've had apart!! They do use crimped multi connector type things, that i must admit, at first glance look very much like a twist connector.

How long do you think a twist connector would last in a washing machine, that's shaking at the start of every spin cycle, especially when under loaded, or the load has become unbalanced??

 

[sysrq]

In the past all domestic aluminium conductors in junction-boxes were welded together. Now we use ultrasonic friction welders for that purpose. Only welded or soldered connections are reliable enough.