ELECSA Certification Scheme A message to all Elecsa registered electricians!! A must read!!

[Welchyboy]

Seems a bit pointless trying to explain AGAIN. If you don`t understand by now you are unlikely to even if I waste more time trying to get the point across.

yeah i get it m8, every things just about the money.....well unfortunatly thats what this worlds about now, sadly its all that matters to most companies especially the like of the NIC etc, it aint just electrical its the police, army and just about every other profession too, its all about quick fix, fast track, instant solutions to problems
that are just storing up problems for the future

BUT the fact is sitting on here wingeing about the sorry state of the electrical industry and looking back to the 60's with rose tinted glasses aint gonna change a single thing

 

[Engineer54]

Until this industry has one properly regulated competence register we will continue to debate the pros and cons of what scheme to affiliate to and what a rip off they are and whether we even need them at all

You don't need a competence register, you NEED a full blown regulated National Register of Qualified Electricians, one with a minimum entry level and with government backed teeth to police the system. And the very last people you want running such a register is the likes of the NICEIC or the other scheme providers.
Preferably it should be based on a non profit sudo-Government run organisation.

You wouldn't then need any of these commercial orientated scheme providers, they can all go back to what they were doing before Part Pee, and that will effectively, be the end of their captive member money spinning venture!! lol!!

 

[Mark P]

Has no one noticed that the Register has had the classifications changed. It's worse! Now instead of being called a Domestic Installer - which sounds more like something you'd do with a cleaner, but at least it is somewhat vague - the wise souls at NIC and Elecsa have bowed to pressure and simply classed everyone as either domestic work or non domestic work. Seems I'd better not let my commercial customers know that I can't work for them anymore.

I have submitted a formal complaint to Elecsa today and I urge any other Elecsa members who feel aggrieved to do the same. Why bother some will say - well the reason is this: the scheme providers are licenced by the Government. As part of their licence they are required to have a complaints procedure and keep a register of complaints made. That information is passed back to the Government dept responsible. The management at Elecsa will not want this as it will make them look inept! Simply go to the Elecsa website click on the link and tell them you wish to make a formal complaint. You will receive a simple form to complete.

It seems Elecsa are trying to call our bluff as their suggestion to me today was that I request that I am removed from the register if I am unhappy. So I have to be penalised further as a result of their mistake. Hmmm. The arrogance of these organisations is unbelievable but it will only get worse as they merge over the next couple of years and one entity is in control of 95% of the market.

I shall be taking legal advice on this and some of you may have access to free legal advice that you could use to do similar. Having a moan on a forum or in the pub or on site is good at harnessing feeling but wont actually change anything. You have to take action.

If Elecsa do not change I shall demand my £440 back from them and I will happily spend £30 taking them to small claims to publicise this debacle.

 

[D Skelton]

Yes I noticed this also.

I'm still in a rather heated email exchange with them but I too have filled out one of their complaints forms!

It seems this is when they actually start to take your complaints seriously!


Apparently, I have the option too of removing myself from the register if I'm unhappy! Why thank you for the privelige Elecsa! When I questioned why it is so easy to remove me and yet reclassifying me as approved is a complicated process, they had little response other than to say that this is the way it is!

I'll post below the email exchanges following on from the last one I posted on here: (I can't post my last reply to Elecsa as I didn't keep a copy of the sent message, I will post it when I get my next reply)

Me:

Dear *** ***,

Thank you for your response, as you can see, I feel very strongly on this matter.

As it stands at this moment in time, the Electrical Safety Register instead of listing me as a 'Domestic Installer' now lists me as only carrying out domestic work. This is even worse than before.

I now want to make it very clear that I wish for my complaints to be taken formally. What this website is doing is nothing short of misrepresentation and will potentially result in financial loss for me and my business. I wish for this misrepresentation to cease with immediate effect.


Kind regards,




Elecsa:

Dear Mr Skelton,

I have forwarded your details to my colleague, Jean Mickle, who will issue the complaints form and procedure for you to formally raise your complaint.

As I have already highlighted, this is an ongoing situation that we are seeking to address and as such I cannot provide assurances as to when it will be resolved. The only immediate course of action that I can recommend to you is that we remove your details from the Electrical Safety Register until such time that you wish to be shown.

Please email me back if this is something that you want to do whilst this is being resolved.

Kind regards,

*** ***



Me:

Dear *** ***,

This is not the course of action I think is best suitable. Either way, I am at a disadvantage whether I am displayed as a domestic installer or whether I don't appear at all.

If I was to remove myself then all I would be doing is absolving you of any liability to rectify the problem. The problem is not with me being included on the register, the problem is with me being classified as a domestic installer.

If you can remove my details from the register with such haste, why can you not re-classify me as an Elecsa approved contractor within the same time frame? You have clearly indicated how easy it is to make a change to this register.

The only solution I believe is to either re-classify me as an Elecsa approved contractor, or take the Whole website down until YOUR problem is rectified. The solution is not to disadvantage me until YOUR problem is rectified.

Kind regards,



Elecsa:

Dear Mr Skelton,

It is a relatively straightforward process for us to completely remove a contractor than it is to amend classifications so unfortunately neither of the actions that you wish to happen are currently within our control to act upon. Once you have raised this as a formal complaint, that process must be allowed to run its course for resolution.

Kind regards,

*** ***

 

[ezzzekiel]

time for everyone to transfer to another (stroma, napit) once numbers start to peak you will notice there change in attitude - but still just the tip of the iceberg

 

[Simlec]

I love it lol
all they have to do is have the name's listed lol.
well I asked for my name to be remove and it has thank god, and come next year my money will be walking to another provider.


unless they will let me transfer in

 

[GLENNSPARK]

stroma are a bunch of donkeys ezzze......

 

[ezzzekiel]

stroma are a bunch of donkeys ezzze......

probably, know nothing of them except the name,

but arnt all the other players also?

 

[TaffyDuck]

stroma are a bunch of donkeys ezzze......

Yeah probably right. I recall the same being said of Elecsa when they started up.

Here`s a copy of a letter I sent today

Dear Ms Fry
Thank you for your reply and I appreciate your comments.

I notice today that there have been some changes to the ESR however they fall well short of what many Elecsa Approved Contractors are requesting.

Part P Approval is, as you are no doubt aware, a legally backed system of accreditation in terms of the change to building regulations that came into force on 1st January 2005.

Approval by the NIC or ECA for non domestic work however has no basis in law and is purely a NIC/ECA system of approval.

With this in mind may I suggest a compomise which may go some way to placating the many Elecsa members who are considering leaving Elecsa in protest over being incorporated into the NIC. A self serving organisation which many of us thought we were avoiding by joining Elecsa all those years ago.

On the top of each search page it could be made clear that although contractors are assessed in a particular discipline that they are not nessesarily limited to work in that field.

A Elecsa Approved contractor logo in the search results would also be needed.

Should this happen I believe that the majority of contractors currently discussing leaving in wholesalers carparks throughout the country and on online forums would consider giving it a little time.

Having been a member of the Elecsa scheme for 6 years or so ( I joined and supported you when people still laughed at Elecsa and called you "The Window People" refering to Elecsa`s link to Fensa) I feel that I have a stake here. I would regret leaving for Napitt however, as you are probably aware, they are mail shotting Elecsa contractors as we speak. It is tempting as I hold C&G 2391 I could make a straight transfer.

At the moment however I am willing to give Elecsa the benefit of the doubt for old times sake.

Regards

 

[Dan]

Did anything ever come of this?

 

[Dan]

Sooooo did anything actually come of this? lol

 

[D Skelton]

Yeah, there was a select committee enquiry, damning evidence of the unscrupulous practices of the so called 'competent persons schemes' was presented, some money changed hands in brown envelopes, Elecsa and the NIC joined forces and were essentially handed a licence by the government to operate with impunity. They're still conning thousands of electricians out of their hard earned money to this day.

I left the scam schemes long behind shortly afterwards.

 

[Lister1987]

As going to add that aren't elecsa and NICEIC 2 side of the same company? Could swear that Elecsa is a NICEIC company or similar.

 

[FatAlan]

Isn’t it Certsure?

 

[Dan]

Yes, Certsure own them both I think. And now Stroma?
Or somebody. Stroma got bought out the other month for sure. Not sure by who.

 

[JBW175]

Yes, Certsure own them both I think. And now Stroma?
Or somebody. Stroma got bought out the other month for sure. Not sure by who.

i think Stroma has been bought out by NAPIT from what i was reading the other week.

 

[Lister1987]

Assuming the CMA doesn't stop it, I can see them ultimately all being under the same parent company in the next 5 years, whether that be good or bad I have no idea.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

Yeah, there was a select committee enquiry, damning evidence of the unscrupulous practices of the so called 'competent persons schemes' was presented, some money changed hands in brown envelopes, Elecsa and the NIC joined forces and were essentially handed a licence by the government to operate with impunity. They're still conning thousands of electricians out of their hard earned money to this day.

I left the scam schemes long behind shortly afterwards.

It is a brave move operating without a scheme and i admire you for it . Have you had any problems when clients sell properties without a notification ?

 

[D Skelton]

It is a brave move operating without a scheme and i admire you for it . Have you had any problems when clients sell properties without a notification ?

Bear in mind this was six odd years ago. Back then about 50% of my work was commercial anyway, so the remaining domestic work I just carried out and certified as normal. For a while I complied with my obligations in the building regulations by writing letters to my local building control department notifying them of work that was to take place and never heard back.

Shortly after I stopped carrying out domestic work entirely as the demand grew for my industrial and commercial work.

The truth of the matter is, not one domestic customer I ever worked for had ever heard of the NICEIC, nor did any letting agent make mention of building regulation compliance. No one knows a thing.

These corporate shysters are operating fully in the knowledge that they've hoodwinked enough sparks into believing that they're a necessity that they don't even need to bother with public awareness.

Nowadays I'm out of that side of the industry entirely. I sold my clients and folded the company and it was the best decision I ever made.

 

[Midwest]

Whilst not perfect, in any shape or form, things have changed slightly. If you have a read of this thread for example, and my experience #24.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I think language changes all the time. New words are formed, some old words disappear through lack of use.
The term electrician was probably laughed at when it first arrived.
Domestic installer is just a new phrase that is slowly becoming ingrained and eventually it will be accepted as normal, or perhaps die out.