UK Add new outlets in house with original fuse box

[cdayuk]

My house was built in 1968 and still has the original fuse box with wired fuses.

I want an electrician to add to the existing ring main a new spur for a combi boiler and a new dual 13A outlet.

Is it correct that in order to comply with the current regs the fuse box will have to be replaced by a modern consumer unit?

 

[James]

Not strictly so, however it may well be the best way to do it.

get a couple of local companies to quote.

 

[MDJ]

I will be surprised however if you find a spark who will add a socket to your existing ring on rewireable fuses lol

 

[cdayuk]

Not strictly so...

Thanks for both replies, are you able to elaborate on that please?

Certainly good in principle, but also surely a considerable extra expense which ultimately could be considered 'gold plating'?

 

[PS Electrics]

Thanks for both replies, are you able to elaborate on that please?

Certainly good in principle, but also surely a considerable extra expense which ultimately could be considered 'gold plating'?

Not gold plating as you put it but a requirement of BS7671 which is the Requirements for Electrical Installations (The Regs)

Any work on a circuit by means of alteration or additions requires that circuit to comply with the current Edition of BS7671.

No spark worth his/her salt will just add sockets to a ring main with wired fuses without making sure it is in compliance with these regs.

Now as James said it might be possible to achieve compliance without the need for a new consumer unit BUT given that wired fuses haven't been used for a very long time this means you have a very outdated Electrical Installation and it might be worth considering doing that and be done with it rather than just make these additions comply and just be in the same boat when something else needs adding or changing.

 

[cdayuk]

Thanks again for your high quality replies: two electricians didn't reply to a similar simple question sent to the contact address on their websites and two Building Control departments were useless, should have tried a forum sooner but replies on forums found in various past searches on different topics raised some concerns about their reliability. And as a moderator on two forums, I appreciate the quality of your posts.

Nonetheless, your view as an electrician of what constitutes 'gold plating' differs from mine as a house owner living on a modest pension! I presume that work that could be performed at a modest cost the day before the regs changed suddenly became much more expensive, requiring installation of a new consumer unit, and potentially possibly even requiring a full rewire.

As for risk, I'm pretty sure that many similar houses to mine still have their original fuse boxes, I am certainly not aware of any of my neighbours having had their electrics upgraded. In the context of risk, think of the risks people take every day: driving a car, cycling and even sometimes reliving their youth on powerful motorbikes.

Thanks again for your posts.

 

[mainline]

Thanks again for your high quality replies: two electricians didn't reply to a similar simple question sent to the contact address on their websites and two Building Control departments were useless, should have tried a forum sooner but replies on forums found in various past searches on different topics raised some concerns about their reliability. And as a moderator on two forums, I appreciate the quality of your posts.

Nonetheless, your view as an electrician of what constitutes 'gold plating' differs from mine as a house owner living on a modest pension! I presume that work that could be performed at a modest cost the day before the regs changed suddenly became much more expensive, requiring installation of a new consumer unit, and potentially possibly even requiring a full rewire.

As for risk, I'm pretty sure that many similar houses to mine still have their original fuse boxes, I am certainly not aware of any of my neighbours having had their electrics upgraded. In the context of risk, think of the risks people take every day: driving a car, cycling and even sometimes reliving their youth on powerful motorbikes.

Thanks again for your posts.

I suppose some people would plug the combi boiler in on an extension lead and another one for the extension socket.
Another person may even use a rcd type extension/s leads.

Some may even get a decent electrician in

 

[James]

Thanks again for your high quality replies: two electricians didn't reply to a similar simple question sent to the contact address on their websites and two Building Control departments were useless, should have tried a forum sooner but replies on forums found in various past searches on different topics raised some concerns about their reliability. And as a moderator on two forums, I appreciate the quality of your posts.

Nonetheless, your view as an electrician of what constitutes 'gold plating' differs from mine as a house owner living on a modest pension! I presume that work that could be performed at a modest cost the day before the regs changed suddenly became much more expensive, requiring installation of a new consumer unit, and potentially possibly even requiring a full rewire.

As for risk, I'm pretty sure that many similar houses to mine still have their original fuse boxes, I am certainly not aware of any of my neighbours having had their electrics upgraded. In the context of risk, think of the risks people take every day: driving a car, cycling and even sometimes reliving their youth on powerful motorbikes.

Thanks again for your posts.

This is a tricky one to explain.

From your perspective,

you have an existing circuit that you would like extending a little with a supply for a boiler and an extra socket for general use.

by doing this, it is unlikely to add any additional risk of damage or injury (unless it is intended for use outdoors, where previously there was no way of doing so)

in 1968 when it was originally constructed, it was the best protection that could be provided and fully complied with the regulations of the time.

on a similar theme.
seatbelts, airbags, antilock brakes and radial tyres had not been invented yet and it would take many years for the legislation to catch up and make them mandatory.
I know people who used to run around in a transit van with basically a sofa in the back for the kids to sit on.

with regards to the electrical issue you have, it would have been ok many years ago.

but nowadays, you are likely to be hauled in front of the court for carrying unrestrained people in the back of a van, also for failing to provide at least the minimum protection listed in the electrical regulations for any addition to an installation.

as I said right at the beginning of this thread, it may be possible to do the work required without changing the original fuse box.
however, the new circuit will at the very least require protection from an RCD and the earthing and bonding will need to be checked for suitability.

If someone was replacing a socket or a broken supply to the boiler then they could do it as a like for like replacement because it is a repair.
however, any addition needs to be installed to the latest requirements.

There may be cost implications to doing it correctly but the only people who will be flexible on the requirements for the work are cowboys who are running the risk of being in court for many things, including manslaughter.

 

[PS Electrics]

Thanks again for your high quality replies: two electricians didn't reply to a similar simple question sent to the contact address on their websites and two Building Control departments were useless, should have tried a forum sooner but replies on forums found in various past searches on different topics raised some concerns about their reliability. And as a moderator on two forums, I appreciate the quality of your posts.

Nonetheless, your view as an electrician of what constitutes 'gold plating' differs from mine as a house owner living on a modest pension! I presume that work that could be performed at a modest cost the day before the regs changed suddenly became much more expensive, requiring installation of a new consumer unit, and potentially possibly even requiring a full rewire.

It is not my view it is the rules. As I stated Electricians work to the current edition of BS7671. We can't just alter or add to a circuit without making sure it complies to the current regs. The only exception to this would be a like for like accessory change.

As for risk, I'm pretty sure that many similar houses to mine still have their original fuse boxes, I am certainly not aware of any of my neighbours having had their electrics upgraded.

But they probably haven't had any alterations or additions done? You only have this issue because you are altering or adding to your installation.

In the context of risk, think of the risks people take every day: driving a car, cycling and even sometimes reliving their youth on powerful motorbikes.

The only way for you to take on this risk (If by risk you mean not complying with BS7671) is by doing the work yourself. You can only legally do this if the work doesn't fall under Part P of the building regs.

Thanks again for your posts.

 

[Taylortwocities]

You can only legally do this if the work doesn't fall under Part P of the building regs.

In actual fact ALL electrical work must comply with the LAW relating to electrical safety. The Statutory Instrument embedded in Building Regulations P1 is simply this:

To support the application of this, the government produces what is known as an "Approved Document". It states the way(s) that we can comply with P1 which is THE LAW. Its called "guidance" in the document.

The Approved Document for BR Part P is HERE Electrical safety: Approved Document P - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-approved-document-p

Basically it says you really should comply with BS7671* (that's the bit where updates to installations are needed) and that you have to notify certain electrical work to the local authority.

*The laughable part is that the Approved Document calls on the 2008 (17th edition) version of BS7671 (we are already in several iterations of BS7671's 18th edition).

Make what you will of that, but the underlying message is that to do anything, legally, its a new consumer unit that you will need.

 

[PS Electrics]

In actual fact ALL electrical work must comply with the LAW relating to electrical safety. The Statutory Instrument embedded in Building Regulations P1 is simply this:
View attachment 118223
To support the application of this, the government produces what is known as an "Approved Document". It states the way(s) that we can comply with P1 which is THE LAW. Its called "guidance" in the document.

You misunderstood what I said. I never said the work itself would be legal. I was referencing what they could legally do themselves without Part P notification.

 

[mainline]

the underlying message is that to do anything, legally, its a new consumer unit that you will need.

I wouldn't agree that the only way is to have a new consumer unit.

 

[cdayuk]

I wouldn't agree that the only way is to have a new consumer unit.

As a V.Nearly Esteemed member, could you please elaborate on that?

 

[littlespark]

install a secondary smaller consumer unit that is installed to current regs and move the circuit you are working on onto this new board, leasving the old fuseboard as is.

The time taken to do this, it would probably be more cost effective to replace the whole thing.

 

[mainline]

As a V.Nearly Esteemed member, could you please elaborate on that?

As already said #14 is one way.

My post was in relation to the statement renewing the board is the only option.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

A board change would be best, but I appreciate there may not be the budget for this. An alternative way could be an RCD in an enclosure immediately downstream of the rewireable fuse, with the ring terminated into it. This would likely bring the circuit into compliance, assuming no other existing issues, allowing the alterations to be done. It could all be done inexpensively, as a minor works.