Advice about testing another's work

[Gazthesparky]

Need a bit of advice /opinions

I completed a full rewire a couple of months ago prior to starting the customer said kitchen company was sorting kitchen ring and my contract/quotation stated I was not responsible for this while first fixing kitchen company fitted kitchen and left kitchen ring unconnected as I hadn't fitted new consumer unit. At the time I stated to them they needed to come back and commission

I second fixed left the ring unconnected and put on my EIC that the kitchen ring was installed by another and not responsible

I've now had a call from customer saying kitchen company aren't going to come back and commission and could I they will pay me extra for doing so.

So should I go back and fill out a ECR and connect the circuit ? Or point blank refuse to connect it ? As its not my work and I know the cables have been thrown about under the floor and not clipped

Where do I stand I don't want to be responsible for there work as I didn't install it

 

[ian.settle1]

i think richard burns' post is the way forward. test it, complete a 3 sig. EIC with only the test/inspection signed, then it's up to the customer to insist that the kitchen co. sign for design and install.

What design if a kitchen company has done it

 

[Gazthesparky]

Well I went back to the customer and said I wasn't prepared to test it. I said it wasn't up to my standard and I am not taking responsibility for someone else's work. I said I would come back and install a whole new circuit and test but they will babe to pay. They said they would chase the kitchen company.

They did however let it slip that they had signed the kitchen company's completion handover paperwork and they have paid the full amount. Muppets

 

[Dizzy_Maskell]

If you are dubious in any way why risk your career livelihood for a small job like connecting up some sockets.
Walk away or even better run !

 

[gnselectricals]

Is their work really that bad or is it just that the cables aren't secured properly.
Just done a 3rd party notification via Napit for my mate as he has de registered from niceic and I know his work is sound.
Did one last month for a carpenter mate as his original spark disappeared to Aus couldn't check all cable runs etc but all tested fine so I personally don't see a problem.
Napit form is a cross between 3 part EIC and a EICR, where the installer details can be added and there is space to add a comment saying that your not fully responsible etc.

 

[Gazthesparky]

Is their work really that bad or is it just that the cables aren't secured properly.
Just done a 3rd party notification via Napit for my mate as he has de registered from niceic and I know his work is sound.
Did one last month for a carpenter mate as his original spark disappeared to Aus couldn't check all cable runs etc but all tested fine so I personally don't see a problem.
Napit form is a cross between 3 part EIC and a EICR, where the installer details can be added and there is space to add a comment saying that your not fully responsible etc.

I'm not registered with any scheme so 3rd party notification is a no go would be good if there was a cross over cert that would do the job

And I don't know the kitchen company who installed it, the t&e not clipped isn't a big issue but this is under a suspended floor where rats could be in the future , the cables are lying on the ground. Non of the sockets were level or in a line so if they couldn't be arsed with that then God knows what corners they have cut

Glad I refused don't want to be be responsible for someone else's work

 

[PEG]

I'm not registered with any scheme so 3rd party notification is a no go would be good if there was a cross over cert that would do the job

And I don't know the kitchen company who installed it, the t&e not clipped isn't a big issue but this is under a suspended floor where rats could be in the future , the cables are lying on the ground. Non of the sockets were level or in a line so if they couldn't be arsed with that then God knows what corners they have cut

Glad I refused don't want to be be responsible for someone else's work

The first gripe sounds like most properties i've ever inspected,from new build to listed....and the second is not exactly true,as you would be responsible for ONLY your inspection and testing.

Many installations test out fine,with few compliance issues,yet are scruffy,badly set-out and show little evidence of craftsmanship...welcome to Broken Britain :winkiss:

 

[Taylortwocities]

I was under the impression that electricians can 3rd party expect, test and certify now.

Not strictly true. The latest Building Regs now allows third party certification schemes. This allowed the various organisations to create the capability for electricians to carry out third party notifications. A person registered with one of the schemes would be able to check domestic electrical work undertaken by installers who are not registered with a Part P competent person self-certification scheme (typically DIY work) and certify that the work is compliant with the Building Regulations.

BUT many of the schemes (NICEIC, ELECSA) have opted out of the Third Party Cert facility on the grounds of safety. Those that do provide for it (NAPIT, STROMA) have created a separate membership option (ie pay more ££) to allow the third party capability.

Another fine mess.

 

[baldelectrician]

The client must explain to the kitchen fitters that their work comes under part P

No Part P in Scotland (thank god)

I had a similar issue on a flat a few years back.
I did a rewire and left the kitchen as was (it was to be done later on and was not done by me, just tested and reconnected to the new consumer unit)

I put the kitchen ring on a 20A radial (as I did not know if there were any spurs off spurs etc, although no strange test results happened).

This was an exisiting circuit on a old flat.

I may have connected it if the tests were OK, but added it as an exception on the EIC. Any doubt and it would have been left.

If the kitchen company a member of SELECT / NICIEC - the customer may have some recourse there?

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Part p isn't in Wales ever (I was told and asked Welsh government department, unless I read it wrong... Again)

 

[Taylortwocities]

Part p isn't in Wales ever (I was told and asked Welsh government department, unless I read it wrong... Again)

You were lied to. Part P is very much a regulation in England AND Wales. In fact the notification requirements in Wales are different (more requirements)

Oh look, here's information on a Welsh Government web site :smartass:
Welsh Government | Part P (Electrical safety)
or did you want it in a foreign language?
Llywodraeth Cymru | Rhan P (Electrical safety)

 

[andyb]

I think it only applies to the parts of Wales that have electricity.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Glad I'm not Welsh
I emailed them too

 

[Sparky Pat]

If you want to keep your customer happy do the tests, get customer to send to kitchen installer to see if they are happy with results, kitchen installer would then be in a position to issue certificate and could give you written instructions to make kitchen circuit live.
make sure that on your own certificate you put that kitchen wiring carried out by xyz kitchen installer [ie name installer] do not put carried out by third party.
is s##t should hit fan in future you have your get out of jail card.
Hope this helps
Patrick.

 

[Midwest]

I'm not registered with any scheme so 3rd party notification is a no go would be good if there was a cross over cert that would do the job

Had a similar problem with a CU change and partial Rewire, and customer re-fitting a kitchen. Did the cu and first fixed cooker & island radial. Also first fixed kitchen radial, but tested and energised it and 2nd fixed one socket, so client could have temporary power. Client said he would call me back when kitchen was being fitted, so I could finish off. A while went by , so I called client, who said kitchen fitters had finished off the work! Bit annoyed, so I went back and checked my CU, before I issued EIC for my work and told client to get cert from kitchen fitters for circuits of mine they energised. You could do as Burns' said, after all you connect up others circuits, when doing CU replacements. Incidentally how did you carry out the notification process, if you not in a scheme? Just curious.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Incidentally how did you carry out the notification process, if you not in a scheme? Just curious.

Depends on the Local Authority. It is supposed to work like this:
You raise a Building Notice with the LABC, and pay their fee (a couple of hundred quid). They will want to see the wiring at various stages (too late if its plastered over), they will want to see a BS7671 Installation Certificate that includes allof the proper test results* and be convinced of your competence to do the work (might need to see your C&G certs, e.g.)
The LABC then issue a Building Regs Compliance Certificate and close the Building Notice as completed.

*They used to do the testing as part of the Building Notice, but the dreaded cuts now mean this is done by you at your expense.