... advice on this situation please

[Deleted member 111934]

Evening,
Im working for a builder on a kitchen extension..

Now the usual procedure with this building contractor is do the essential checks (bonding, Ze ect) make sure its up to scratch and fit a separate board to feed my new circuits... nice and simple

However im just finishing the first fix and it turns out the client expects the house board to also be updated (rewireable fuses and no RCD protection). The builders spec doesn’t specifically ask for this so its not been included by him but hey ho its an extra for me at the end of the day.

The place is a big house and while doing a walking round it is evident that there is ongoing work by other contractors in the bedrooms and additional en suits/wetrooms. Which started last year prior to me and is still not finished.

There has been a shed load of electrical work carried out in these new suits (underfloor heating, towel rails, downlights, cabinet lighting, PIR switching/dimmers and wall lighting).

As I mentioned no RCD protection is installed so no wonder the client is fairly adamant the board change is included in my builders spec.

I asked for any certification issued to the client for works carried out but its not been done.

The work seems ok from what I can see...
Then I found metal cased double insulated wall lights in the bathrooms that have not been installed correctly with the t and e stripped and brw/blu conductors ran into the fitting (no grommet) and connected with wagos. One knock of the fittings and the case could become live with pipe work and towel rails in reaching distance.

Pulled it up as being dangerous with the client and asked why the installation was started without at the very least an RCD fitted in the first place. They said that the previous electrician who did the work was aware of the requirement for RCD protection but was told by the client that the board was being upgraded so don’t worry.

... would you put yourself in this position?
I wouldn’t

Way I see it I have a few options

1. Remove the dangerous fittings, isolate the feeds at the dimmer and risk the client reinstalling them back himself. Reinstalling them properly will be difficult as the plastic joint box and rubber cable sleave has been thrown and with the fitting being mounted on espensive tiles, hes not going to want to leave a hole where they was fitted.
Then test the lot and then do the board change.

2. Be persistent and ask for the previous electrician to rectify the lights, test the work and issue a certificate taking responsibility for the works.

3. Knock the board change on the head all together and tell the client to get the electrician back to do it and certify his work.
I have never certificated other peoples work and I really don't want to start now.

Any advice?
Cheers

 

[pirate]

Happily, if you have two legs, use them and walk away...

 

[ruston]

Do you really need to ask? .. As above .

 

[buzzlightyear]

when the alarms bell start ring in your ear ,do you think is police car or ambulance or HSE. walk or put in writing .

 

[rolyberkin]

Walk away and tell the client why!

 

[buzzlightyear]

before I start on any job for a builder or the client after another sparks been in ,then the terms of condition are set in stone ,pay me to put it correct or get the them back,

 

[Sparky Pat]

option 3 , walk away you will only be making a rod for your own back and live to regret it if you get involved with the other work.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think they are being economical with the truth.
Make certain you get paid up to date or in advance.
Tell them to obtain replacement connection kits for the lights, or replace the lights altogether.

 

[ackbarthestar]

I assume you are on a daily rate ?
Terrible things these priced up jobs, you spend most of your time keeping track of all the extras and changes.

 

[dmxtothemax]

Sounds like a cess pitt !
You need to stop and take measures to protect your name reputation and electrical licence.
Don't leave anything to chance.
Or walkaway.

 

[Midwest]

Good advice from members, however I know how important work from builders is vital to some trade persons.

I don't understand any electrician carrying out non compliant works, on the promise it'll all be alright, don't worry.

I would suggest @youngz your works cannot proceed as is at the moment. Its a large property with various existing circuits, new works have been carried out, and some been installed non compliant, and you have been asked along with other things, to install a replacement CU.

I would also suggest, that if you wish to proceed with the work, that an EICR must be carried before any more new works are down. If you client agrees it might be useful, if this survey was done by another third party, so your not seen as making something out of this, because of the earlier issues.

If not, I would do as the others said, and decline the work.

 

[telectrix]

stick to the kitchen work as per your contract with the builder. let the customer sort out the rest with whoever done it.

 

[richy3333]

Danger notice. Put something in writing to customer and builder PDQ to cover yourself and then decide how you are prepared to proceed. Sods law dictates that if anyone gets a shock you will be blamed and they will deny all knowledge of your conversations!

 

[Pete999]

Danger notice. Put something in writing to customer and builder PDQ to cover yourself and then decide how you are prepared to proceed. Sods law dictates that if anyone gets a shock you will be blamed and they will deny all knowledge of your conversations!

Good advice, if there was ever a best case of CYA this rates one of the best examples.

 

[richy3333]

Thanks Pete Rectus-protectus!

 

[Wilko]

Hi - if you are unhappy with the standard of other works, then for sure don't take on the new CU. "Very happy to do the part I signed up for Gov, but ...". The fact is you've only seen what's in the open, but there could well be more to the iceberg. So I think that's a vote for option 3 .

 

[Wilko]

Hi - if you are unhappy with the standard of other works, then for sure don't take on the new CU. "Very happy to do the part I signed up for Gov, but ...". The fact is you've only seen what's in the open, so there could be more to this iceberg. I think that's my vote for option 3 .

 

[The Ghost]

So what about you put in writing you will only certify the work you do and will not connect existing/previous wiring which is potentially dangerous. Reading between the lines I divine the previous spark has left mid job with similar misgivings. Perhaps the owner thought to finish it themselves hence the poor workmanship? Anyway in principle I go with the hive mind and would decline any work there.

 

[ferg]

Advise EICR and take it from there.

It's no different to changing the board any other time.

Make clear on the cert and in writing what work you carried out and what was existing at time of board change.
Along with any concerns you have.

If you cba with the hassle and have no worries about damaging your relationship with the builder and or customer just tell them you only have enough time in your schedule to carry out the previously agreed works.. then run for the hills.

 

[MJPD29]

I would stuck with the original plan and fit a new sub board for your circuits and leave the rest to be sorted by whoever fitted it and don't get involved with it. If client insists you change board I would walk away

 

[jackhammerJIM]

I would stuck with the original plan and fit a new sub board for your circuits and leave the rest to be sorted by whoever fitted it and don't get involved with it. If client insists you change board I would walk away

I agree with this . No need to walk away , Explain you won't certify and take responsibility for work completed by other contractors . You could fit a new board large enough to accommodate a mains change whilst connecting only your circuits .

 

[Deleted member 111934]

Thank you all for your time and responses.

I have had a conversation with the client and made myself clear how I felt about the situation.

He has contacted the contractors who employed the previous sparks and has asked for them to put there name to it and test/certificate the works etc. If they dont. Then he’ll have to get an another electrician in to do an EICR on the whole property and carry out what evers required.

I think it set in with the client how much of a mess this all is and got him questioning some other bits a piece regarding previous trades.

Anyway...

The builders sound as a pound. He knows the score when it comes to covering ones arse. I’ll put the a board in for our work as per usual and crack on.

 

[chrisdungan]

First of all :- what would you say in the coroners court?? start from there and work back. You're the latest on site therefore you're first in the queue if it turns to ----.
YOU CANNOT CERTIFY OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK!! You can only certify what you yourself have done
However you can verify that what other's have done is compliant ( or not)
I'm a Kiwi electrical Inspector and have been away from the UK for more than 12 years so I don't know the current fine print but the principles are the same wherever you are
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING
DIARY NOTE EVERYTHING INCLUDING EVERY CONVERSATION
Depending on the customer and your preferences this could be a total crock of crap or a nice little money mine. Your choice.
It would be really unwise to get the previous sparkies back on the job. Ask yourself why aren't they still there? and why did they do ---- work?
Start as if the whole situation is a new job and rectify all the non compliant stuff ........ cheerfully. Try not to bad mouth the previous sparkies as it will actually make you look bad.
You need to create the impression that you are a competent and careful tradie with the customer's best interests at heart.
It's tedious but you should price everything and get customer approval before you lift a screwdriver otherwise it WILL bite you on the arse.
Look very carefully at the relationship between yourself, the builder and the owner. Make sure all three of you are on the same page and there are no misunderstandings.
I've been in this situation myself.
depending on how you handle it it could lead to ongoing profitable work.
It won't be easy
Best of luck

Oh and by the way don't be bashful about charging a decent amount for your work. don't undersell yourself

 

[Markyd]

In the words of Aerosmith......Walk this way

 

[Marti]

One of the hardest things for me to learn was, and still is, walk away. Even now I can look back at emergency call-outs where I have endeavoured to leave a safe and working system behind me for a family and what I should have been focused on is "if this goes up, you were the last person to touch it which virtually absolves every cowboy that got there ahead of you". The steady cry of "walk away" from the experience hands in here is like having your mum saying "mind how you cross the road" - it might be a repeat but no less valuable.