Advise please on a new re-wire

[pjmale45]

Hi all, I would appreciate some proffessional advise on a recent re-wire my friend has had. Im not 100% up on regs for domestic property and also sure about workmanship practices but I know this is a bad job. I want to go back to the contractor but Im gathering some 'truths' first before I start. This was a 3 bed house in Birmingham area and cost £4500. Ive added some pics to give you an idea but Im mostly concerned about 1. clipped wiring not covered in protection, 2. the wiring is not channeled its level with plaster so how do you cover it?, 3. isnt the wiring into the consumer unit supposed to be enclosed or glanded to keep the fire aspect safe?
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[pjmale45]

I have a friend who does domestic wiring unfortunately he's not local to me, I've taken his advise as well and hes gobsmacked by the workmanship and hes never seen such poor finishing. I was just surprised by it tbh. Any way it is what it is by looks of it, a rip off.

 

[Midwest]

The plaster would cover just the cable but with the clips or the capping which is used in some areas for some reason it makes them flush with the surface of the plaster. As I say its more around the cost and what was expected for that cost. The customer has now got to get either major plaster works done and coving work or get cables channeled in further. Ive got the safe zones in the building regs and on site guide I hadnt even considered that and didnt get that far. Once I saw the install I was in complete shock if Im honest.

I quite agree with your comments, it is a poor install. The only reason to use cable clips and not capping or channelling, is the later is more time consuming to install. Which suggests other areas of the work, may have been conducted in the same manner.

What did the quotation say about chasing and making good afterwards? What's in the terms and conditions of the quotation? Has the invoice been paid and an EIC & Compliance Certificate been received?

 

[buzzlightyear]

. 1 person says one thing but others aren't so sure to agree. I

We are the borg the collective so any thing we say goes not always togeather. Lol

 

[HappyHippyDad]

@pjmale45
It sounds like you had already made up your mind that the install was 'terrible' and you just wanted evevryone to say that so you had a bit of ammunition rather than advise.

I agree with the majority of the comments, it does look rough. In parts it looks very rough and I would be completely embarrassed to put my name to it. However, just because it looks rough does not make it non-compliant with the regulations. The cables entering the top of the consumer unit are non compliant and should have not been done like that.

The electrician and owner should have had a discussion before hand about whether cables were going to be surface mounted or plastered into the wall. From your pictures it looks like a mixture of both so I'm guessing this was discussed before hand or written in the quote. If not, then your friend was a bit silly for not getting it all in writing and the electrician was unprofessional for not discussing it or writing it in their quote.

If the cables are protruding from the wall and cannot be plastered in without making a lump then this needs to be changed (unless agreed upon prior) as you would expect a chase to be made deep enough to hide the cables.

It would be best to have an adult discussion with the electrician and come to an agreement. If you cannot then you ask the electrician for their complaints procedure which all registered electricians have.

 

[pjmale45]

@pjmale45
It sounds like you had already made up your mind that the install was 'terrible' and you just wanted evevryone to say that so you had a bit of ammunition rather than advise.

I had made my mind up yes that it was 'terrible' because it is. I will be honest and say that I had 'expected' most people to say it was because 'it is' lol. Its just not standards Ive ever come across in my history but admitidly I rarely see house re-wires any more. The advise is of course ammunition because Im not happy with the level of workmanship in retrospect to the cost involved. I wasnt sure on regs and this is where I required most advise tbh. I 'presumed' capping was a reg as Ive never ever seen cables not capped but as I say my experience in that is limited. I was also unsure on new regs on DB's. I thought cables had to be sealed into them as part of the fire side of things, never even knew about IP ratings.
Im very grateful for advise of course I was just surprised at the level of difference in peoples opinions on it. I do really think its a shame that this kind of workmanship is almost considered as 'standard'.
Im mostly industrial wiring as I install capital machinery into Blue Chip companies and I could never get away with anything near these standards but yes thats a very different field.

 

[Midwest]

What did the quotation say about chasing and making good afterwards? What's in the terms and conditions of the quotation? Has the invoice been paid and an EIC & Compliance Certificate been received?

Im very grateful for advise of course I was just surprised at the level of difference in peoples opinions on it. I do really think its a shame that this kind of workmanship is almost considered as 'standard'.
Im mostly industrial wiring as I install capital machinery into Blue Chip companies and I could never get away with anything near these standards but yes thats a very different field.

Have you any answers to my questions?

 

[pjmale45]

Im still waiting to see the documents with my own eyes, they certificated the install on completion bit Ive not read it yet. The home owner would not have known anything about the requirements other than she said she was just getting it re plastered. The home owner was unaware of any issues until I saw the install. Im going to photograph all documents and you can all make your comments further from there. I will also get further install pictures including inside DB.

 

[radiohead]

I had made my mind up yes that it was 'terrible' because it is. I will be honest and say that I had 'expected' most people to say it was because 'it is' lol. Its just not standards Ive ever come across in my history but admitidly I rarely see house re-wires any more. The advise is of course ammunition because Im not happy with the level of workmanship in retrospect to the cost involved. I wasnt sure on regs and this is where I required most advise tbh. I 'presumed' capping was a reg as Ive never ever seen cables not capped but as I say my experience in that is limited. I was also unsure on new regs on DB's. I thought cables had to be sealed into them as part of the fire side of things, never even knew about IP ratings.
Im very grateful for advise of course I was just surprised at the level of difference in peoples opinions on it. I do really think its a shame that this kind of workmanship is almost considered as 'standard'.
Im mostly industrial wiring as I install capital machinery into Blue Chip companies and I could never get away with anything near these standards but yes thats a very different field.

It is unfortunate that you are not entirely hearing what you expected to hear. Nobody has suggested this is anything other than poorly finished. When I carry out rewires I use a chasing machine with dust extraction, and all buried cables are installed in 20mm plastic conduit finished below plaster level, I also carry out plastering myself to at least as high a standard as a professional plasterer, all you'd need to do is decorate. I would agree that leaving supposedly buried cables proud of the surface finish is unacceptable. However I am certain you'd be paying more than 4.5K for my rewiring services. The points that are being made are that you have queried whether you have grounds for complaint with breaches of regulations, whilst you may, IMO those breaches are minor and not likely to result in the NICEIC asking for anything more than remedials to the possible IP issue on the top of the DB. You still have not answered my question on the vertical drops which has the potential to be a more serious breach of regulations. As far as finish goes you will need to review exactly what was quoted for before complaining.

 

[telectrix]

re- cable capping..... on a wall that is to be completely plastered ( not a chase), then capping is required to protect the cables frm the plastere's trowel. years ago it was also required where the would be an interaction between the plaster (could have been lime) and the cables' insulation ( VIR?). these days, cable in chases does not need capping.

 

[Pete999]

It is unfortunate that you are not entirely hearing what you expected to hear. Nobody has suggested this is anything other than poorly finished. When I carry out rewires I use a chasing machine with dust extraction, and all buried cables are installed in 20mm plastic conduit finished below plaster level, I also carry out plastering myself to at least as high a standard as a professional plasterer, all you'd need to do is decorate. I would agree that leaving supposedly buried cables proud of the surface finish is unacceptable. However I am certain you'd be paying more than 4.5K for my rewiring services. The points that are being made are that you have queried whether you have grounds for complaint with breaches of regulations, whilst you may, IMO those breaches are minor and not likely to result in the NICEIC asking for anything more than remedials to the possible IP issue on the top of the DB. You still have not answered my question on the vertical drops which has the potential to be a more serious breach of regulations. As far as finish goes you will need to review exactly what was quoted for before complaining.

Can I ask why you mention the NICEIC mate was the sparky a NICEIC paid up member?

 

[radiohead]

Can I ask why you mention the NICEIC mate was the sparky a NICEIC paid up member?

Have a look at the picture of the DB Pete. It is to be assumed so from the applied test sticker.

 

[Pete999]

Have a look at the picture of the DB Pete.

Oh Yeah didn't notice that my eyes aint what they were when I was younger, sorry Mate

 

[Midwest]

Im still waiting to see the documents with my own eyes, they certificated the install on completion bit Ive not read it yet. The home owner would not have known anything about the requirements other than she said she was just getting it re plastered. The home owner was unaware of any issues until I saw the install. Im going to photograph all documents and you can all make your comments further from there. I will also get further install pictures including inside DB.

Did she receive a written quotation?

 

[richy3333]

I'm afraid in a race to the bottom dictated by domestic customers wanting the lowest priced job possible its pretty standard for the domestic electrical industry. Its not right but it is commonly seen.

 

[Mike Johnson]

It's too easy to blame the customer for the race to the bottom, they want value for money, OK that may also be the cheapest price, but then they can't be surprised by what they get, but they should get a decent standard of instal, which I think most on here agree they did not get. but lets look at this another way, £4500.00 minus perhaps £1500.00 for materials, six hour day by £35.00/hour gives us fourteen days, was the electrician on site for fourteen days?