Agency overpayment carry on, advice please.

[SparkyJoe]

Right, small problem.

I started a job about 6 weeks ago, though an agency, i spoke to the guy at the time, and because i didt have IPAF, (or some bull****) they wanted to pay me mates rates (9.50) anyway i needed the money, so i took the job, anyway they paid me electricians rate (like everyone else on the job) of 14 quid, - in hind sight, i should of said something but there you go.

Anyway they put me back down to 9.50 about a fornight ago, and i recieved a phone call on monday afternoon asking for the 650quid+ back.

so ive jacked, on there repayment terms id be on 5quid an hour after tax for a 47.5hour working week, which quite frankly is a ****ing joke.

My question is, Ive already lost my week in hand and monday, do you think they will try and bill me for the rest of it?

Why is knocking your pan in day in and day out so ****ing complicated.

 

[mogga]

DO you have an JIB Card ? what does it say on the front?
Name and shame the Agency ? or PM if they are member of some silly agency body then it may be worth a phone call not all agencys are crooks most are legit ( ok they make their money from us ) But iv never heard anything like this

 

[madmac]

Report them to the union, especially if the job was for a JIB/SJIB/SELECT/ECA, company, they will soon get the message and hopefully the company will kick them off site for fraud and potentially breaking health&safety as just because you were a spark it doesn't mean the next guy is but might be employed under the noses of the real company as a spark!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

It's down to the agency to provide the specified labour and check the qualifications. They are the employer. The client employs the agency. Pass the buck. The only way I can see out here is if the client specified an electrician, and paid an agency to provide one, which they did, then only passed on mate's rates. However, the OP agreed to the offered rate. Technically he should pay the overpayment back.

 

[Mr.Black]

Tell them you'll take them to UKAS i think they're called.Abrbitration services.Someone correct me please if i've got it wrong,and get the cash THEY OWE YOU.

 

[dav1980]

Regardless of whether you have IPAF or not, you are an electrician and should be paid as such. Cant believe the way the working man is treated these days. They think they can do what they like because lots of folk are in the same boat and need the money. Makes me sick.

 

[madmac]

Voltz, I agree to a point with you if this job is on a non-JIB/SJIB site then it is down to the individual and what he agreed to work for, however if it IS a JIB/SJIB site then there is a legally binding National Agreement that these member companies signed up to and there is no excuse for them to say that it's up to the agency to check and pay correct rates for electricians. They are responsible for the sub-contracted labour via agencies to be vetted i.e ECS/CSCS JIB/SJIB grade cards provided at site inductions for health & safety reasons first and foremost and secondly if they are knowingly allowing agency electricians to be paid under the agreed rates they are breaking the agreement they signed up to. Also under the SJIB rules, rule2.8 in summary states: It is the policy of the SJIB that, where possible, employers choose as a first option to recruit directly employed labour. More guys need to ask for direct employment from these mobs at every opertunity and report them if they say no, that's the only way to beat the agencies and get the mobs to play by the rules!!!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

I agree with all the posts about what should happen etc.. but in the real world of work, one person offers a rate, and upon the acceptance of this 'contract' then that it what it is. I AM saying that he SHOULD be payed a sparks rate for his work, but the sad reality is that he AGREED to work for a lower rate, and that complicates things legally speaking.

Please let's not confuse the issue with what should have been etc..., I am in no way saying that people should be working for less than they're worth, they shouldn't.

BUT, he accepted the rate of pay and the terms. And now he is out of a job with a potential legal case ensuing.

My heartfelt sympathies.

 

[madmac]

Voltz, also don't read me wrong please, I'm not having a dig mate I'm only pointing out that there are ways and means to defend our position as qualified electricians and the easiest is to belong to the union and check if the mobs we work for are JIB/SJIB member companies then we have a framework that sparks created to give us the rates and T&C's we are talking about here. But I agree, if the poor chap for whatever financial reasons and I'm not judging him for his position, agreed to take on this job for under the agreed rates then there is a point of argument from the agency, however the fact that the agency paid him a sparks rate was probably down to the fact that one, he is a spark and two, the company employing the other men were would have kicked off had they found out. re: my point about fraud.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Not taken in the wrong way at all. Could you explain your point about 'fraud' more clearly. And also, how many agencies are 'JIB etc. I think what you are meaning if i understand correctly is the electrical contractor using agencies and thus circumventing their liabilities regarding accepted rates?

Unfortunately, I don't see that this will affect the poor chap's predicament.

As a further disclaimer, I am NOT HERE TO JUDGE the blinking case. I am WITH you all regarding the MORAL argument. Lets see if we can find a satisfactory outcome for our friend.

Regards.

 

[Des 56]

The regulations governing these leeches are very strict
It is their responsibility to ensure that they check and have evidence of all necessary qualifications and training courses required of a worker by the client company before hiring out that worker to the company
Any breaches of the regulations by the leeches and they can be prosecuted like the criminals they indeed are

It is also important to remember that a breach of these Regulations is
also actionable by the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) as a
criminal offence and may be prosecuted by the DTI through the criminal
courts.
Regulation 31 - E


They engaged an electrician,they got an electrician,they sent that electrician to do a job which he did not have training
The way I see it,they are on very sticky ground should a complaint against them be threatened
If it were me,I would tell the bloodsuckers too rightly to shove their head up a channel where it would have difficulty being extracted
They prey on the working man and good riddance to these vile companies when the EU regulations catch up with them

Heres the piece of information i hope will see the back of the leeches and their bloodsucking practices

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/employment-matters/docs/a/11-905-agency-workers-regulations-guidance.pdf

 

[High Tower]

im assuming there are no written contracts accepting the lower rate, if not then the agency do not have a leg to stand on

 

[VoltzElectrical]

I see your point Des. I only came at it from the angle that they might have pulled a fast one on the client from one perspective. Good to have another. I'm thinking this is where the 'fraud' element might come in? By agreeing to provide the services of a 'spark' then sending a 'mate'. (even though he wasn't/ isn't, he was being paid as such, but 'let out' to the client under the guise of a spark (requested) and being paid under the rate, i.e, ripped off.]]

Interesting. i am starting to think that he might have a good argument after all. Let's hope he succeeds.

 

[SparkyJoe]

Sorry made a bit of an argument, Yeah it was verbally agreed id be on 9.50 (bills to pay) before i started, but with them paying the actual rate from day one, I had assumed that had just decided to do the right thing and pay me the rate.

Theres no written contract stating how much i was to be paid, so im hoping they dont have a leg to stand on if it ends up in some small claims court.

The agency was meridian bissness support, working with ameon, I was basicly told, that the agency had tryed to bill for an electrician was told to get stuffed, hence clawing it back from me.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Been overpaid twice by Agencies now.
One wanted me to be paid through an umbrella company as my own employee on minimum wage, and as a director paying corporation tax on the amount above the minimum wage.
I refused and insisted they pay me through the payment company I specified. I got home the evening they agreed and they phoned me to tell me not to go back to site in the morning.
Of course, I had to go back to collect my tools. When I got paid, they over paid me about £90 for three days. A week later, I recieved a letter asking for the over payment back. Diddn't pay them, and have never worked for them since.
Another Agency after I had given them all my Ltd. Co. details paid me through a payment company, after a lot of faffing about, they ended up paying a weeks money twice. Never heard anything from them about it. Never worked for them since either.

 

[madmac]

Des, eloquently put sir and High Tower there is still the possibility of electricians accepting any contract written on the back of a smoke packet but that's up to them ultimately, however, for the purposes of this debate and for the sanity of the poor fellow in question, at least phone the union and ask there advice for all that it's worth and regarding the fraud issue Voltz, I'm aiming at the monies charged for the labour supplied i.e if they are charging for a mate and paying a mates rates then why was the man doing an electricians job? and if they were charging for a spark then paying him under the agreed rates we are back to my point about mobs being responsible for the T&C's of sub-contractors where there could be "trouble" on-site regarding books-in sparks getting angry about fellow sparks being under paid and potentially being used to do works that they were not prepared to do(maybe) i.e. with regards to the ipaf. I know I've went off on a bit of a tangent here but I think you'll understand what I mean lads.