Am I being too fussy?

[MattyKHZ]

When I started looking I was all set up to go with a company who was offering 250W Sanyo x 16 and 4000TL for £12,000. 10 year insurance backed warranty and 25 year on inverter. Fixings were K2.

The issue I had was they were pushing for an install with scaffolding going up on the day I came out of hospital from an operation and a very quick install. Tech survey was to be done on the day which I felt was odd as I felt if something wasn't on the van install would take place with whatever they had available.

A local Sanyo Premium installer quoted around the same time and told me about the K2 fixings for 35mm rafters, 3 man team with roofer, electrician etc. And the £500 premium seemed worth it. I felt I needed a new CU and wanted the Wylex PV CU with built in meter. The CU is in a cloakroom and felt that I did not want loads of boxes and stuff. I also decided on the Solar Edge Inverter and 12 year warranty. Provided all details etc and was told they would look into it.

Get told they are still trying (yet others are getting them from CAS) and that they had a 4000 TL reserved just in case. Then it was can't get and Sunnyboy it is. Invoice is for same price as Solar Edge system which I query as that had a premium. Then told extra is for CU yet I told them at start I wanted this so would have thought it wa sin Solar Edge quote. So query why CU cost works out to be same as Solar Edge system difference and this then gets reduced.

Today install takes place and not K2 fixings (was told they were ordered and secure) and some are adjustable some aren't and they will get them in the 35mm rafters at some kind of screw angle. When I asked about CU they will not use Wylex and instead will be Crabtree with seperate meter.

I was sold on their knowledge. To me it makes sense that german houses are different to UK ones so fixings like the K2 for 35mm rafters was a selling point. Solar Edge and its benefits/warranty were also a benefit as I feel was the Wylex CU.

It seems I have to be happy I am getting a Sanyo panel install and 4000TL. They even just quoted Sunnyboy on Invoice where as I felt if teh panels are quoted by make and model so should teh inverter as just as important.

And also it seems tiles have to be slight raised where cable and bracket are at the bottom. I have flat interlocking tiles and it seems these are not the usual (2007 build house). I thought they were supposed to be ground own slightly so did not sit proud????

 

[dansk]

I don't think your being "too fussy" from what your saying it seems they have squeezed you in but are struggling like the rest of us, the mounting sounds a bit not quite right, and CAS are hard to get hold of, so maybe there is some truth in that.

The problem you seem to have is you have your heart set on a solar edge, but ended up with something different, ok it's a good inverter, but I'm the same, when I want a madras and get served a korma I'm ok, but it's not what I wanted.

 

[WRDEnergy]

Your not being fussy as you should get what you want as the customer. I am fairly new to the PV side of things myself but I have been doing the domestic install side for a while now.

Sanyo panels are as far as im aware the best at the moment, although you do pay quite a bit more for just a few % more efficency.

in regards to the inverter I dont think you would need to pay the full wack for a 4000TL on a 4kw system, seems stupid I know but keep in mind that the inverter will never produce the full 4kw (maybe on really nice clear day in summer) but we are not getting that often. on the city and guilds course I recently finished they said that around 80% is all you would need so for 4kw 3200 inverter would be more ideal the reason for this is that inverters are far more efficent the closer they are to their max load.... now as you will not get the most out of your pannels most of the year you are going to be running very low on the potenal of your inverter so around 80% allows it to run at a higher efficiency thought out the year making it overall more benifical than going for a 4000 inverer as your basically saying its going to be perfect conditions all day everyday to cover it and in the UK its not.

I checked the sunny boy software for you on the 250w sanyo panels and they reccomend using a SB3800/V 0153 at a 98% nominal power ratio SB3300 @ 96% SB 3300-11 @ 96% but these are expected to have a lower than expected yield they also reccomened a SB 3000TL-20 for a higher yield but only at 80% nominal power ratio all sounds confusing I know and it is to me aswell, LOL but the way I understand it is that you would be better using a SB 3800 rather than the 4000 or maybe even think of using another company and maybe get a 3600 or something.

maybe someone with more experience and expand on what I have said and I know you didnt ask this question but just thought it might be of some help.

Thanks

William

 

[MattyKHZ]

Don't think I really have any options as scaffolding is up, Inverter and rails situated but was "sold" the system/service by the company and told certain things and they do not seem to be the same now it is being installed.

I wanted the best performing system for the money and if the Solar Edge was more efficient, better with its optimisers etc that is why I suggested it. I guess I cannot force an installer to use something they have not before but was told they would try and get it and did not. Just like I should have been told when the scaffolders were coming rather than them just turn up when I was at work and my wife was coming home from a night shift.

I am sure the 4000TL and Sanyo 4KW system will perform OK especially as I am south facing. But they are just 2 pieces of kit and it is the install, methodology used, neatness etc which are things that are individual to the installer and I was hoping for a neat install and all in one CU.

Fear I may not get either but where do you stand when there is this rush on and deadline to meet.

 

[powervan]

all i can say is U WILL RECOUP UR MONEY !! £12000 ok price!! sanyo sma all good! wylex not all that great! hard to read! get it fitted and watch the money roll in!!

 

[moggy1968]

£12000 is cheap for a 16 panel sanyo installation. Something has to give. labour is the next most expensive thing. what appears to me is the install has been rushed to come it at the price they needed to get the order. If you have plain tiles there is no reason for them to sit up. If you have pantiles the nibs should be ground down so they sit better, but that takes time and time is money.
It is a good example of why cheapest isn't always best. You should have been kept informed of what was going on, given options and told the reasons why things needed to be changed.

have you signed a variation of contract? it is a requirement of a contract that changes to that contract must be any agreed, in writing. You will still do well with asouth facing Sanyo install, but it's not what was agreed,

 

[MattyKHZ]

I am actually paying £12,800. I chose a more expensive company based on the promises and impression they gave and they all seem to be false. Could/should have gone with the £12000 quote. At least it would have saved money. And they had the Solar Edge they could have sold me for £500 extra.

I am not an electrician so do not know what can and can't be done. I was originally told meter cabinet could have meter in if required but told no today, has to be by CU. So I will have a cloakroom full of electrical boxes. I could live with the CU that is already there, cost too much to move. Now seperate meter etc.

Having a new kitchen next year which will involve electrics so feel I should just drop the build down to the standard one and forget the new CU and get someone else to do that who can do it as I want. Guess the only trouble then is if I changed the meter ie got the Wylex with it included would cause problems.

If I had known I would have sourced Wylex CU with meter enclosed myself.

 

[Earthstore]

The system they have supplied you is good quality, if the install is of a high standard, it will all be fine.
I understand your concern, and yes you are right, in normal circumstances a supplier should not change the spec, however, these are not normal circumstances.
Over the last month, companies have been fitting anything they can get there hands on, cheap Chinese inverters, mounting systems that have never been heard of, panels, well don't even ask.
So you have to make a choice, either have the good quality kit that your installation company has offered, or nothing at all.
Sorry to sound direct, but I know which I would choose.
Hope this helps
Earthstore Energy

 

[moggy1968]

We are competitive on our pricing, but wouldn't be anywhere near £12000 on that job. But thats no excuse. You agree a price for a job and thats the job you do. If things need to change (as unfortunately has been the case for a lot of people over the last month) then you should be informed of those changes to ensure you agree with them.

£12800 is a significant investment on your part and your installer should respect that and behave accordingly.

Do ask!! the current situation does not give installers carte blanche to install what they like without asking customers first if they agree!!

The current situation is being used by some as an excuse to behave in an appaling way. All my customers have had quality branded panels and inverters, depite the fact that as a small company we have to but as we go along.

 

[powervan]

cancel ! its ur right if its not what u want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! put ur xmas lights up before scaffold comes down bonus!! ive had hassle getting kit!!! ive drove miles to get it!! jobs takeing 4/5 days due to lack of gear!! i suggest u GRAB it and be GRATEFULL or dont let them in and REGRET it???????????????

 

[SRE]

Unfortunately even the best of installers are having problems and when you get a Sanyo system at that price then there's even more of an issue, there's very little slack in the margin to allow for the cost of having someone in the office chasing orders all day, ringing you to let you know what's happening, changing your paperwork etc etc.

If it's cheaper (we'd be charging at least £1500 more than you're paying) it's usually because the costs have been cut somewhere and at times like this, that's when the cracks start to show, not your fault but an unfortunate result of a sloppy government decision.

You have 2 choices as I see it, accept the changes understanding the pressures that are on the industry at the minute or cancel the order and regret not taking this golden opportunity. You'll never again get the chance to buy a Sanyo system at that price with the 43p tariff - the last 2 months have been the golden era of solar. Cheapest prices and highest tariff.

 

[dansk]

it doesnt have to look untidy, this is was a downstairs inverter job of mine and i dont think its too bad.

 

[Noddy67]

I'd be happy with the subs. they're not short changing you on the panels or inverter. it's a great FiT rate at the moment so I wouldn't let it slip away because they could have tried subbing any old tat. In my opinion.

 

[sharpener]

I am not an electrician so do not know what can and can't be done. I was originally told meter cabinet could have meter in if required but told no today, has to be by CU. So I will have a cloakroom full of electrical boxes. I could live with the CU that is already there, cost too much to move. Now seperate meter etc.

Having a new kitchen next year which will involve electrics so feel I should just drop the build down to the standard one and forget the new CU and get someone else to do that who can do it as I want. Guess the only trouble then is if I changed the meter ie got the Wylex with it included would cause problems.

If I had known I would have sourced Wylex CU with meter enclosed myself.

From what you say you can do without the Wylex integrated CU for now (and should get a price reduction), get someone else to tidy up the job when you get the kitchen electrics done. There must be a procedure for changing a "broken" generation meter and notifying this to your electricity purchaser (I expect it will have to be done by an MCS certified electrician but come 2012 I dare say they will have all gone back to replacing CUs anyway...)

Funnily enough I wanted an SB 4000TL so I could upgrade with the Sunny Home Manager kit next year but was told there weren't any! At least you will be able to do that, or use the multifunction relay to control your immersion heater (see other threads) Am due to get a StecaGrid next week, have just spent a happy evening configuring a wireless ethernet extender box so it will be able to communicate with my ADSL router from the loft.

 

[MattyKHZ]

We have a Gledhill Boilermate (some sort of thermal store) instead of an immersion heater so not sure if the control you mention is the same.

I am happy with the products, did not go for the cheapest and went with then one that gave me the best impression at time of survey. Just feel everything I was told is incorrect, and as it is our home which we have had numerous problems with before this, am upset that people promise you one thing and deliver another.

I will just go with a vanilla install now and get the meter changed for a Wylex all in one CU at my own expense later. I am not paying any extra for CU work when it is not the one I outlined. Had I of known, I would have supplied that and the Solar Edge inverter myself. To be told they were looking at it I feel some things have not been bothered with. All information was given a month ago.

My cheapest quote was like for like but with insurance backed 10 year warranty and an alleged 20 year inverter warranty. That was something that appealed but the sales process was not as good as the company I chose. So went with the best salesperson rather than best company but you do not know this at the time.

I am awaiting daylight now so will get some 300mm lens snaps of the roof, tiles and fixings as it currently is and post them up later.