Amendment 3 escape routes and building control.

[Leesparkykent]

So yesterday I was wiring the communal areas in a block of flats that im doing and the building control officer pops his head in with the site agent. Concrete ceilings that's having a MF suspended ceiling underneath so we are using bang in cable tie bases.......Building control officer pipes up and says not acceptable, looks in his book and quotes reg 521.11.201 at me. I say its having an MF ceiling and the new reg would only apply to wiring in or out of containment underneath the suspended ceiling. But the **** is adament and said he wants band straping screwed either side to support the wiring in the event of a fire......Prat. Anyone had similar instances with building control officers?

 

[sean_ork]

They don't make up the regs, but they do often misinterpret them - if you are confident that he is wrong, prove it to him - he can't make you do something that isnt in the regs.

 

[davesparks]

When you say MF do you mean ceiling tiles or MF with plasterboard?

 

[Leesparkykent]

When you say MF do you mean ceiling tiles or MF with plasterboard?

MF with plasterboard.

 

[davesparks]

Ok, I think you're in the right on this one then.

I first assumed it was tiles which is a bit different afaik

 

[Leesparkykent]

They don't make up the regs, but they do often misinterpret them - if you are confident that he is wrong, prove it to him - he can't make you do something that isnt in the regs.

I know he's wrong but didn't want to rock the boat so ended up getting the apprentice to screw some band strapping up. This building control officer is a new one to the area so when I see the one I know and have mainly dealt with for the last 15 years ill have a word I think.

 

[sean_ork]

I know he's wrong but didn't want to rock the boat so ended up getting the apprentice to screw some band strapping up. This building control officer is a new one to the area so when I see the one I know and have mainly dealt with for the last 15 years ill have a word I think.

That's fair enough, if keeping him happy is cheap and quick - its not always so easy, that's the time to stand your ground.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Ok, I think you're in the right on this one then.

I first assumed it was tiles which is a bit different afaik

Yeah I think with a grid ceiling they are designed to collapse in a certain way that's why they have The V shape cut in to some of the grid rails.

 

[tazz]

We have had this under the BS5839 for many years, and now its come into the 7671, and imo not before time. Many fire incidents have resulted in people and fireman being entangled in fallen cables and unsupported pipework. With data guys being the worst for throwing cables across ceilings. Plastic ties are possibly the worst cable support in a fire condition. Proper supported containment rawbolted into the ceiling will always be a best solution, but any metal strapping which gives hours and not minutes in a fire event is better than plastic.

 

[Leesparkykent]

We have had this under the BS5839 for many years, and now its come into the 7671, and imo not before time. Many fire incidents have resulted in people and fireman being entangled in fallen cables and unsupported pipework. With data guys being the worst for throwing cables across ceilings. Plastic ties are possibly the worst cable support in a fire condition. Proper supported containment rawbolted into the ceiling will always be a best solution, but any metal strapping which gives hours and not minutes in a fire event is better than plastic.

I understand what your saying tazz but in this case the fire board has to has to come down and the MF in the event of a fire before any cables come down.

 

[LankyWill]

I always found those hammer in plugs a pain when wiring comms, especially when you pull a mains cable through. We use a hilti gun that fires a metal rod into the concrete with a special metal banding attachment already setup. The things a beast we had special training as its classed as a firearm think nail gun for concrete, absolutely rapid and fixing them in, so you can wire pretty quick.

 

[tazz]

With the MF board, this can give vital time in the event of a fire, with supported containment it increases the time further.

Fireman tells how he found colleagues in burning flat (From Daily Echo)

 

[Leesparkykent]

I always found those hammer in plugs a pain when wiring comms, especially when you pull a mains cable through. We use a hilti gun that fires a metal rod into the concrete with a special metal banding attachment already setup. The things a beast we had special training as its called as a firearm think nail gun for concrete, absolutely rapid and fixing them in, so you can wire pretty quick.

All the sub mains are on tray in this case.The bang in bases are purely for the communal lighting. I know the gun your on about but have never seen the fixings you mentioned. I've seen spit do a version as well for conduit clips. Like this

 

[LankyWill]

Yes that them Lee havent used the conduit ones yet, the Hilti Guns a good bit of kit but about £500 luckily my gaffer managed to subdue the management into getting one for us as we do a fair bit of communal areas and flats. Its something that will pay for itself in speed and functionality. Ears Defs mandatory im pretty sure when we do 14hour shifts i leave with shell shock.

 

[Lagentium]

We had the same problem recently, an existing building we were working in had to have the ceiling double boarded before the MF ceiling was then hung from that,our containment was fixed to that double boarded ceiling before the void was formed, I tried telling the site foreman that regardless of what I fix it with, it's only as good as what I fix into!!