Any Point in Domestic Installer course or any electrical training at 41 in 2022?

[aliensbrains]

As the title says. I'm really battling with figuring out the best route to electrical training (College level 2/3 v's DI), and to be honest - even though I'm really keen, I'm starting to get a bit disillusioned with the whole thing.

I'm in a technical job currently and 41 so apprenticeship is probably not really for me. Really would like to go down the sole trader route at some point but in no hurry. Only really interested in domestic work and would be interested in EV charge/solar and testing eventually (if I can get CPS registered).

On paper the domestic installer route seems perfect to someone like me but I'm only hearing negative things about that route and domestic installers generally.

Since the changes in 2021, it seems it's more difficult to get the DI with less courses accepted as minimum for CPS - but has the damage been done to the DI reputation and is there no real way in for someone my age/in my position?

Or am I reading this wrong and there is a way forward that I'm not seeing?

 

[philectrical]

But the NIC EIC Domestic Installer qualified supervisor scheme, would hold weight, wouldn't it? And the qualifications in the original post would (along with all the other requirements on their website*) get you on to that... So it is better than nothing isn't it?

Your goal is to work in people's houses. You need nothing except clients to be able to do that. You can't get onto the DI scheme without 2 years experience anyway.

 

[Dustydazzler]

or go fo plumbing....pays better, no complicated regs. or maths ( ---- flows downhill, basic gravitinational theory) , and great fun fixing pipes across eletrical switchgear, and radiators over sockets. no brainer.

Don't joke Tel , a good mate of mine who started out as a sparks roughly the same time as me , maybe a year or two into his sparks training he switched to plumbing and bathroom fitting and makes a killing. When I see him out and about he often ribs me how how he earns 3 grand a week and has no hoops to jump through and no regs or scams to pay for.

The more I think about it , the more I think he makes a good point

 

[philectrical]

Don't joke Tel , a good mate of mine who started out as a sparks roughly the same time as me , maybe a year or two into his sparks training he switched to plumbing and bathroom fitting and makes a killing. When I see him out and about he often ribs me how how he earns 3 grand a week and has no hoops to jump through and no regs or scams to pay for.

The more I think about it , the more I think he makes a good point

Be a plasterer, you only need a trowel, hawk, bucket, paddle, drill and a back made of titanium.

 

[aliensbrains]

The course is a scam then because C&G won't let you do level 3 without level 2.

You either have to go Level 2 -> Level 3 or go the experienced worker route where you need neither and can go straight to the NVQ.

EDIT: scrap that, i just saw you meant T+I and 18th. Even with these you will not be able to do any work that you can't already do without them. You'd still have to get building control in to do notifiable work since no scheme will have you on now without provable experience.



Well what experience do you have so far? Just general building trade experience can be enough - you can pick up the specifics of how to fit electrical accessories as you go, it's not hard. But if you're transitioning from say an office and are the type of guy that employs someone else to put some kitchen units together because you can't do it then it's going to be tougher.

I know how to do electrics because i learned it by myself through the years, watching others, reading books, getting practical experience, even working on my own dummy boards and rigs to figure out how to install quickly and efficiently. I was also a general builder so first fixing stuff, using measuring equipment, knowing how houses are put together etc was already my bread and butter so adapting to an electrical-only environment wasn't hard. I'm still rough around the edges with electrics like but getting there much quicker than a 16 year old would.

Sorry, missed this earlier.

I meant all of the quals posted earlier so:

LCL Awards Level 3 - Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installations in Dwellings
City & Guilds 2382-22 - Level 3 18th Edition Wiring Regulations
City & Guilds 2391-50 - Level 3 Inspection & Testing - Initial Verification

These are the ones on the 'DI course' I've been looking at and don't require a level 2 to enter. I've also rang NIC EIC and they confirmed that these would qualify for the DI qualified supervisor scheme

Previously I've done quite a bit of DIY, house renovation and probably far too many electrical adjustments than I should've done on my own properties. I've worked for estates teams doing general maintenance etc. I've worked in theatre and live entertainment on the tech side of things and have worked in audio engineering, recording and music production. I'm interested in electrics and electronics and, like you read up and practice wherever possible.

I'm definitely rough round the edges, but genuinely interested and eager to learn and practice as much as possible.

 

[philectrical]

Sorry, missed this earlier.

I meant all of the quals posted earlier so:

LCL Awards Level 3 - Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installations in Dwellings
City & Guilds 2382-22 - Level 3 18th Edition Wiring Regulations
City & Guilds 2391-50 - Level 3 Inspection & Testing - Initial Verification

These are the ones on the 'DI course' I've been looking at and don't require a level 2 to enter. I've also rang NIC EIC and they confirmed that these would qualify for the DI qualified supervisor scheme

Previously I've done quite a bit of DIY, house renovation and probably far too many electrical adjustments than I should've done on my own properties. I've worked for estates teams doing general maintenance etc. I've worked in theatre and live entertainment on the tech side of things and have worked in audio engineering, recording and music production. I'm interested in electrics and electronics and, like you read up and practice wherever possible.

I'm definitely rough round the edges, but genuinely interested and eager to learn and practice as much as possible.

Yeah my bad mate i edited the post, thought your C&G reference was level 3 2365.

Still, there's no such thing as a 'domestic installer' course, this sounds like a few quals being dressed up under that name. They're great quals to have but give you no more right to call yourself a domestic installer than if you didn't have them. You won't be able to join a scheme, sign off work, probably wouldn't get any work on site as a fully fledged electrician, can't get a JIB gold card, can't even get the relevant ECS card with it.

The point is just be wary that what is being sold to you is 'do this course and then you can do domestic installation' when really you can already do it. Those courses are just testing and the regs, both open book exams.

Don't know what NIC are on about but you can't go on their schemes just with those qualifications anymore, their handbook says you need 2 years post-qualification experience in a supervisory role. Changes are listed here:

Change to the applicant Qualified Supervisor qualification and experience requirements from September 2020 and September 2021 including - a requirement for two years responsibility for electrotechnical work and ongoing continuing Professional Development and - from Sept 21 the requirement to hold a formal ‘craft’ qualification as well as BS 7671 and inspection and testing qualifications for applicant QS’s, with recognition of previous experience of being a registered QS within the last 2 years.

If a previously registered QS is applying for registration under this experience route, evidence such as a letter from the previous scheme provider or the last assessment report confirming their name, QS status, scope of work assessed (which must be equal to the scope of work applied for), date and assessment outcome will be required. Additional requirements for documentation to support electrical work completed by the business. Greater focus on assessing staff supervision (employed persons*) and the records the business keeps in general, especially in respect of staff training records, competence and CPD evidence.

 

[aliensbrains]

Yeah my bad mate i edited the post, thought your C&G reference was level 3 2365.

Still, there's no such thing as a 'domestic installer' course, this sounds like a few quals being dressed up under that name. They're great quals to have but give you no more right to call yourself a domestic installer than if you didn't have them. You won't be able to join a scheme, sign off work, probably wouldn't get any work on site as a fully fledged electrician, can't get a JIB gold card, can't even get the relevant ECS card with it.

The point is just be wary that what is being sold to you is 'do this course and then you can do domestic installation' when really you can already do it. Those courses are just testing and the regs, both open book exams.

Don't know what NIC are on about but you can't go on their schemes just with those qualifications anymore, their handbook says you need 2 years post-qualification experience in a supervisory role. Changes are listed here:

Thanks mate, appreciate all the info. Also take on board the fact that the 2 C&G are open book and not massive. So, I guess the money from the course which for me will probably be ~3.9k* out of my own pocket, will be aimed at the LCL Awards Level 3 - Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installations in Dwellings and the teaching/facilities plus any contacts I can make there amongst the group etc.

*unless I go for the City & Guilds 2391-51 Periodic Inspection and Testing and the City & Guilds 2919-01 Electric Vehicle charging course for an extra grand - But still not convinced any of it is worth it at the moment!!

Re NICEIC and the CPS. I think maybe I've confused the issue... but I'm referring to the Domestic Installer Scheme. Requirements according to the website are:

To apply for our Domestic Installer scheme, here is an example of what you will need:

• Be directly engaged in Domestic Electrical Work
• Have a minimum of £2 million Public Liability Insurance in the registered trading name
• Certificates of technical qualifications achieved by the Qualified Supervisor
• Hold a current edition of BS 7671, HSR25 (E@WR89) and any other technical reference guides relevant to the range and scale of electrical work you undertake
• Maintain a record of the ongoing accuracy and consistency of test equipment used for certification and reporting purposes
• Appoint one or more Qualified Supervisor as required
• Proposed Qualified Supervisor has at least 2 years responsibility for electrical work
• Have a safe isolation and re-energisation of installations procedure in place
• Have a written Health & Safety Policy Statement and carry out risk assessments as appropriate
• Make available for assessment sufficient examples of domestic electrical installation work completed with appropriate certification in the previous 12 months by the business. It is advisable to arrange access to a selection of sites
• Evidence of relevant qualifications, training (including Continuous Professional Development) and experience for all employed persons undertaking electrical work
• Maintain records for a minimum of 6 years, inclusive, but not limited to; specifications, certificates, competence records and complaints

I will ring the NIC EIC and make sure I'm properly aware of the level of work I need to be doing for the 2 years before I can join the scheme - as I said before though, I'm not in a rush to get with the scheme as, IF I go for it, I'll be hoping to start on small jobs, part time at first and giving some mates who are full time sparks a hand, if they'll let me!