Apartment with Economy 9

[nbe]

I have an apartment with this strange EDF tariff called Economy 9. It is basically 9 hours of off-peak electric that are spread throughout the day, unlike Economy 7 which has them all at night.

There is a single Horstmann radio telemeter and a single CU. However the CU is wired up with two main switches and there are two live feeds coming out of the meter (presumably, the "heating" and "everything else" feeds) and these are wired into the corresponding main switches on the CU.

The left hand side main switch on the CU has all the fuses for heating, immersion etc. And the right hand side main switch has the fuses for everything else like the ring mains, cooker, lighting etc.



This doesn't seem right to me as it means that whenever the off peak comes around then only the heating of the apartment will benefit. Whereas everything will still be charged at the normal rate (which on Economy 9 is about 16p!).


First of all I need to know whether this is normal or not. And secondly, if it is not normal and it is legal for me to do so, what can I do to correct the situation?


Thank you very much!

 

[oldtimer]

View attachment HWS.pdf View attachment SH.pdf

Your Immersion and heating will only come on during the off peak period but the rest of the house will be on 24hrs Not to clued up on ECO9 but you may also get the rest of the house on reduced rate during the off peak period.

Also off peak says what it means ie you will probably have storage heaters in the house that along with the immersion (bottom) heater will come on during the night the top immersion heater or the boost will work during the day. I think the off peak rate is about 50% of the day rate.

So why have off peak well 2 things one is the grid could not cope with all of these loads coming on during the day and also when everybody goes to bed at night the load drops off but the grid cannot switch power stations off at the flick of a switch plus it is more economical to run them 24 hours a day but they need a load hence your immersion and storage heaters that charge up overnight on a cheaper rate of electricity.

So why not use gas you can use it 24 hours a day and it can be instant well theres the rub we are running out of gas big time hence why new build Flats not Apartments are being configured for off peak or in other words they are moving us over to electric.

Have a look at the 2 attachements I have added this should explain

 

[nbe]

It's an apartment with Duplex storage heaters. There is no gas supply so that's out of the question

The meter has two readouts on it, for each live feed. I'll need to wait for the next off peak window to see whether only one of the readouts increases during the off peak, but I'm 95% sure that this is not the case.

What is stopping me somehow rewiring it so that the ring mains benefit from the cheaper electric during off peak? Is this even possible?

 

[oldtimer]

It's an apartment with Duplex storage heaters. There is no gas supply so that's out of the question

The meter has two readouts on it, for each live feed. I'll need to wait for the next off peak window to see whether only one of the readouts increases during the off peak, but I'm 95% sure that this is not the case.

What is stopping me somehow rewiring it so that the ring mains benefit from the cheaper electric during off peak? Is this even possible?

Listen dont even go there and just to add it looks like you have 2 rates ie normal and off peak so ok lets go down your road if you move your heating over to the normal supply you electric bill will double plus your heater will give off heat during the night and your idea about putting the ring on the off peak sounds great except for one major problem you will not have any electricity until 12 midnight so all the food in your fridge will go off you cannot watch Tv or surf the web or hoover or even cook until midnight .

Look no offence just accept what you have got these things are set up for a reason but if you want to ignore me then first thing to do is get your life insurance jacked up because at least you will provide for your family after you kill yourself trying to change over your supplies.

Also have a look at the attachments I added to my first post an PS I aint going to answer any more on this subject as I have seen this before when there is a Yes But No But Yes But No But debate

 

[nbe]

Wtf? Calm down mate!

I don't want to move the heaters onto the continuous supply at all! I was wondering whether I could run the normal electrics (ring mains, lighting, cooker etc) using the off peak supply *during* the off peak periods. And then when it is no longer off peak, move them back automatically (and seamlessly i.e. no disconnection) to the continuous supply. As then the rest of apartment, not just the heating, would benefit from the cheaper off peak electric.

I'm not going to kill anyone! It's just a question. I just want to know if what I'm asking is possible (and legal?!) and then if so I can look at getting an sparky in to do the work.

 

[UNG]

You are asking a question without checking whether all the installation switches to economy whatever from past experience of economy 7 all the installation switches over as a few people I know with E7 used a plug in time clock on the washing machine to switch on during the night to do the washing and similar with the dishwasher

First thing to do is check the meter readings during the off peak time then come back with your original question

 

[HandySparks]

The meter has two readouts on it, for each live feed.

It's possible that it's this way, but much more likely to be one readout for peak and one for off-peak rate. If so, you're getting the best possible deal anyway without re-wiring your CU.

You can check this by seeing whether only one of the readouts increments during any one peak or off-peak period. If so, both supplies to your CU are being metered together.

Let us know what you find.

 

[Guitarist]

My setup was exactly the same. I think you may be getting confused with what your meter is actually doing tho. This box will switch at the off-peak times and power up the appropriate consumer unit. However, the tariff itself is controlled through the meter, regardless of the fact that it has switched another output. Therefore, at the off-peak times your whole installation will benefit. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Top Cat]

My setup was exactly the same. I think you may be getting confused with what your meter is actually doing tho. This box will switch at the off-peak times and power up the appropriate consumer unit. However, the tariff itself is controlled through the meter, regardless of the fact that it has switched another output. Therefore, at the off-peak times your whole installation will benefit. Hope this makes sense.

Not necessarily, if you have E7 yes to the above.

If you have the old Off peak meter then only the night time units of the storage heaters / electricair circuit will be on cheap rate and normally a mid day boost.

This was for the old style N/S/H's that would not keep their heat until evening time.

Not many of these around anymore but if you have this, the normal circuits (sockets, lights etc) will stay on normal rate day and night.

 

[UNG]

Not necessarily, if you have E7 yes to the above.

If you have the old Off peak meter then only the night time units of the storage heaters / electricair circuit will be on cheap rate and normally a mid day boost.

This was for the old style N/S/H's that would not keep their heat until evening time.

Not many of these around anymore but if you have this, the normal circuits (sockets, lights etc) will stay on normal rate day and night.

Don't agree with you on this as all the publicity at the time was for doing your washing, tumble drying and even running your dishwasher at night to make the most of the tariff

I know quite a few people who had Economy 7 many years ago and this is the way they got the value out of the tariff it wasn't worth having otherwise

If I remember correctly the old white meter had a little arrow to indicate whether it was peak or off peak units being used

 

[Top Cat]

Don't agree with you on this as all the publicity at the time was for doing your washing, tumble drying and even running your dishwasher at night to make the most of the tariff

I know quite a few people who had Economy 7 many years ago and this is the way they got the value out of the tariff it wasn't worth having otherwise

If I remember correctly the old white meter had a little arrow to indicate whether it was peak or off peak units being used

The publicity at the time was to get people off "Off peak" metering and on to Economy 7 metering.

I think you answered your own question when you said you new a lot of people that had Economy 7. If they had Economy 7 they would have been able to get value out of the tariff but not if they had "Off peak"

 

[PWC]

Chaps,

I have E9 in my flat when I changed providers I ended up paying two standing charges this because an E9 meter is classed as two as it has two thingy numbers. When I was with EDF prior to change over I paid a higher rate per unit but no standing charge however, a few years later I tried to switch back and EDF did not want to know. On the plus side it is still cheaper with OVO even with two standing charges.

Pete