Apprenticesxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Pete999]

Am I out of touch with modern trends? don't answer that if you can't be nice.
I see a lot of threads, enquiring about "how do I get an Apprenticeship" and "I'm an Adult Apprentice"
Have things changed? daft question really of course they have, with the onset of short courses etc, I'm not having a dig at short courses, honestly, I just cant understand, how Guys and Gals are searching pillar to post foe Apprenticeships.
There are those who will say "things have moved on Pete" but many of the larger Electrical Companies treat Apprenticeships as what they are, a commitment to someone who is willing to train, work for low wages for a period of time and eventually learn a trade, qualify properly, and become Electricians, you hear of people moving from one post to another for an Apprentice position.
Can someone please explain, to someone Old School, how the Apprentice thing works these days, because I'm lost.
I can understand people with commitments, trying the short course route, I don't personally like it but, it's the new wave I presume, I was indentured for 6 years, this must have changed, so will someone please explain to an on fart how it works these days, much appreciated in advance, just to ease my furrowed brow, and ease an Old timers worries. please.

 

[Phil Thompson]

I became a EITB registered trainer just before I finished my apprenticeship. The up and coming apprentice’s grasp of maths was always my bugbear.


As for the brush and shovel, apprentices, trades men, charge hands and the forman all mucked in to clean the workshop. “You’re there to learn a trade, not make tea!”

That’s my attitude, and I don’t ask anyone to do anything I won’t do myself, unless it’s to fit into a space I’m never squeezing into lol

But I actually had to show my one how to brush up on Tuesday there, he did a half job, if that even.

 

[Deleted account]

I hate to generalise, but are kids IQ's and common sense not what they where 20-30 years ago.
They seem very easily distracted and when given a task do half a job.
As Phil says about his apprentice and brushing up. I've had exactly the same. If you've got to start teaching these little non skilled basic tasks how on earth are they going to cope with actual electrical work.

I have taken older trainees to give them experience and all is fine, but when going to 16-19year olds they are absolutely useless.

I could go on but this is turning into a rant.

I think kids think they are better than they are and deserve more in a quicker time due to unrealistic expectations put on to them in the education system.

Everyone's a winner, you can achieve anything you want.

Not everyone can come first place and out of the thousands of kids who want to be an astronaut, it's just not possible for all of them to achieve this.

Sorry it did turn into a rant.

 

[Blissof89]

You have to consider that as more and more kids are pushed towards further education and university the quality of the ones that end up going down the work based learning route is going to suffer.

Even when I left school back in 2005 we were heavily pushed towards further education. Apprenticeships were talked about but not in a great amount of detail and I was advised the I should apply for college or 6thform as a 'back up' incase I could not find an apprenticeship.

 

[Marti]

As for the brush and shovel, apprentices, trades men, charge hands and the forman all mucked in to clean the workshop. “You’re there to learn a trade, not make tea!”

The reason I had to go the very hard route of self employed. I don't mind making tea / load the van / clearing up BUT don't expect me to spend thousands in college fees, bring 30 years of home repair, a driver's licence and tools and learn nothing. I'm sure there are companies that would / could develop skills...but they would not employ someone of my age and never will.

the time you lose trying to teach them anything is unreal, they don’t have a clue about materials for months and months, so don’t speed you up that way.
lol

It's all because of Meccano and the bicycles Obviously, you get a Meccano kit at age five, fix your own bicycle at ten, your motor bike at sixteen, your flat at twenty...you get my point. Youngsters are, unfortunately taught that only gods can fix a smart phone and are therefor clueless about fixing....anything

Incidentally, John Haynes passed away recently. He of Haynes Manuals and the start of my education.

 

[pirate]

F**k, did John die?
Truly the end of an era...
I am sad now...

 

[pirate]

BTW, Marti...
all you said is so true...
we learned!
We did stuff...we worked it out, and we were real!
I loved fixing my bike, my first car, my first boat...all with some basic tools, a socket set and some cheap drivers...
I once got a torque wrench for christmas (still got it!) and my pals thought I was a posh tart!

However, we must be careful...lest this develop into a rant...shhh!

 

[Marti]

We did stuff...we worked it out, and we were real!.....

I once got a torque wrench for christmas (still got it!) and my pals thought I was a posh tart!

However, we must be careful...lest this develop into a rant...shhh!

NO...Never! No ol' man ranting allowed.
(Mumbles) Post tool tart with with torque wrench. I used me teeth

Seriously, the skills and confidence come with time, with repetition and with skinned knuckles. You have to feel for the tradesman trying to pack our teenage years of learnin' into a "toolbox talk" on using a screwdriver without destroying the screw head. Young people are brilliant in so many way; just not all of the ways that make a brilliant tradesman.

 

[AJshep]

Ive worked with lots of youngsters over the last 15 years, I reckon 10% were good, some had attitude, some were just really akward, but unfortunately most were to easily distracted or busy on their phones.
I remember setting this lad up one day to drill joists. I explained how to measure and where to drill, then after using a chaulk line I set him up using an angle drill which had a spiral (arger) wood bit. Simple right? No !
He came back 30mins later with one trouser leg ripped clean off, silly fool had a phone call and instead of finishing up with the drill he rushed to answer his phone while still holding the drill anyway he knocked the trigger started the drill up while it was hanging next to his leg, his trousers got caught in the drill bit and tore them off. Could have been serious, could have lost a leg or ripped his muscle or tendons out.

Maybe its just the people my old boss used to employe, but it puts me off getting one myself and I could do with a hand.

 

[MFS Electrical]

Hi MFS.
Not that I am aware of, I’ve seen nothing on the SECT website nor have they said anything to me.

When I done mine I got £1000 from sectt for passing and I think the company may have got something too possibly £10000.....
http://www.sectt.org.uk/documents/employerinformation-apprenticev2.pdf
Look at the last line

 

[Pete999]

Ive worked with lots of youngsters over the last 15 years, I reckon 10% were good, some had attitude, some were just really akward, but unfortunately most were to easily distracted or busy on their phones.
I remember setting this lad up one day to drill joists. I explained how to measure and where to drill, then after using a chaulk line I set him up using an angle drill which had a spiral (arger) wood bit. Simple right? No !
He came back 30mins later with one trouser leg ripped clean off, silly fool had a phone call and instead of finishing up with the drill he rushed to answer his phone while still holding the drill anyway he knocked the trigger started the drill up while it was hanging next to his leg, his trousers got caught in the drill bit and tore them off. Could have been serious, could have lost a leg or ripped his muscle or tendons out.

Maybe its just the people my old boss used to employe, but it puts me off getting one myself and I could do with a hand.

Probably get an optimistic icon, but insist if you offer them employment (youngsters that is) that you take their Cell phone away whilst they are being paid by you, sure give it back at lunch time, but whilst working is a big no no in my book, tin hat is on firmly fixed.

 

[MG201]

i know a few guys who where apprentices for a 1 man band doning only domestic stuff a house rewire being the biggest, both adults (22+27) they went to college and worked like dogs for the guy he took tax off them for 4 years only for them to try get a tax return after discovering there is such a thing ..ooops never has a penny been paid in thier names , anyway they currently still havnt passed as the guy has never done any testing the boss used to walk in with a multi meter and then supply a cert to the customer yes they did think a multi meter could be used , makes u wonder what the real standards is out there

 

[AJshep]

If they were working for the chap self-employed under the CIS UTR scheme then their invoices to the boss should show total amount and include the 20% tax.

If the boss didnt pay it then they should report it to Inland Revenue

 

[Marti]

take their Cell phone away whilst they are being paid by you, sure give it back at lunch time, but whilst working is a big no no in my book, tin hat is on firmly fixed.

Phones are the root cause of all sorts of social issues at this time. They are also a valuable tool; who of us would not have like to have one the first time we were on a site unsupervised, or take a quick look at the drawings we copied and are now lost on-site somewhere. Even so, the youngsters need to get a grip on why they are there and, if they can't get that, maybe they need to move on.

I remember being struck by the seven year old son of an old boss who had been taught to introduce himself and shake hands before he was seven. That kid will go far because of the basics instilled in him which probably include when to pocket his phone.