approved electrician??

[AWD]

want to register for a jib card, now what i can make out i can qualify for an approved electrician card?, i have 2330 level 2 and 3, 17th edition, 2391, 2392, also pat testing. i no it mentions about an nvq level 3 but i can get my company to vouch for me as i have worked for them for 2 years and been doing it since i was 16 so 6 years experience. advice please :teeth_smile:

 

[Maestro]

do you need to sit another test just like your fica to get approved in Scotland and also attend extra college during nights whilst serving your time

 

[VoltzElectrical]

dont forget you need 2 years experience post nvq for a card of the gold variety!

I think you are confusing the requirement for 2 years + for the grading of 'approved' after gaining 'electrician' status. once the grading of electrician has been gained, for the status of 'approved' electrician, yes, 2 years AND the 2391 course have to be satisfied.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Thanks to all the old guys who went through the 'proper' training, for your responses here. It is really interesting to hear how it was for you at the time. I hope you all appreciate that despite how keen some of us are to get the experience that you had, the opportunities for us younger ones are not there. This is as frustrating for us wanting to learn, as it is for you who get us asking the bloody questions!

Thanks

Voltz

 

[martinh287]

2330 lvl 2+3 technical cert
Teaches the principals of electric

2382 requirements of electrical installations
Teaches how to install electrics

2391 inspection testing and commissioning
Teaches how to test what we have installed

Nvq lvl 3
Shows you using various skills required for the trade

Am2
Proves you can do a installation without any guidance

2-years post electrician experience

All this will get you a gold card.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

2330 lvl 2+3 technical cert
Teaches the principals of electric

2382 requirements of electrical installations
Teaches how to install electrics

2391 inspection testing and commissioning
Teaches how to test what we have installed

Nvq lvl 3
Shows you using various skills required for the trade

Am2
Proves you can do a installation without any guidance

2-years post electrician experience

All this will get you a gold card.

I got my gold card with all of the above bit straight away after doing the NVQ and AM2. The 2 years thing is for 'approved' status along with 2391. Don't make me type this again!

 

[ayjay]

Ayjay, you should be able to renew your card, as an installation electrician.
You won't get approved again untill you have the 2391 or whatever the JIB will be accepting as it's replacement.
To renew your card, all you should need, is the ECS health and safety exam, and the 17th.

ah, i see spinlondon i thought there would be more to it

 

[stephanjs]

Interesting comments here. I argue that the electrical industry is in a mess as far as registration and qualifications are going

Back in the 70s oldtimer is basically correct. To become an electrician you needed c&g235 A, a log book and an up to 5 year apprenticeship dependent on what age you started. Basically you could not be an electrician before age 21.
To be an approved electrician you needed to have been graded as an electrician for at least 2 years and have passed the c&g235 B.
To be a technician you needed to have been an approved electrician at least 5 years. Therefore, minimum age is 26(see next paragraph).
It was possible to become an electrician at 20 if you had passed the c&g235 B and got an electrician certificate (this was done by completing a log book and at lease 3 years as an apprenticeship). The log book was like an nvq/diary file. In my case, I went straight onto the c&g235 B because I had good school qualifications. Starting in September 75 at age 16y and 3m meant I finished the c&g235 B when I was 19. I applied to be an electrician when I was 20 after just a 3y and 9m apprenticeship. My employer objected but JIB overruled them. I was doing the 235 C but had to stop as my employer decided they did not want me becoming a technician. I had done both exams but needed to finish the project (blast). As soon as I got to 22y I applied for approved. My employer made me redundant shortly afterwards so I never got a chance to be a technician on that firm. I worked self employed and did an ONC. The JIB refused to grade me as a technician so I joined the IEEIE and was graded as an Engineering Technician with them. Having completed my Higher Nationals I applied for Incorporated Engineer. etc.etc....
There is no direct equivalent to the old exams qualifications. Indeed the new ones are easier. The 235 became the 2356 and them another? them the 2330 which is being replaced by the 2365. Level 2 is a bit below the old 235 A and the level 3 about the same as the 235 B. Design, Inspection and Testing was the job of technicians, hence the 235 C. This was split into the 2391-10 and 2391-20.

I would be surprised if anyone got graded as an approved electrician without having been graded as an electrician or equivalent for at least 2 years. Also in those days we had to be competent at wiring all electrical systems from doorbells, all alarm systems (including fire alarms), control systems, data and telephone systems, PA and CCTV systems to lighting power and HV installations. Computing was very specialised and rare in those days.

 

[stephanjs]

today we have the 2365 level 2 and 3. many who only pass the level 2 go on to work as an electricians for companies without being graded officially. a smaller number complete the level 3 and go on to working as electricians without being graded too.
Some do the 2392 (which is an introduction to inspection at level 3) and go one to working as inspections testers for some firms and agencies. Still a few do and pass the 2391-10 and do the same. Very rare is those who do the full suite including the NVQ and AM2 and get graded as an electrician and later an approved electrician.
the 2391-10 is now split into the 2394 and the 2395. So to get the full suite can take one year.

 

[oldtimer]

Yep I got distinctions in my B course (approved) and my gaffer was chuffed to bits as I worked in the government term contract of Mathew Halls most of the "laddies" on the contract side either failed or barely scraped through and like you I was 19 when I passed and he said you will have to go for your ONC now that meant a day off work and as you were in contracting you did not get paid and I was living in a flat at the time so I said how about paying me for the day and I will do an extra hour at the end of the day and every second Saturday morning but the old (as I thought at the time) bu99er said no saying I was crazy but I jut went from 3rd year wages to 4th year wages a big jump the 1st=£14 2nd=£16 3rd=£20 4th=£35 so I could not afford it and had to watch all the apprentices from the health board,local council and DOE get paid to go and even get all their books and exams paid for.

I was meant to serve my time at the end of August but the gaffer handed me my JIB docs telling me to get it filled in early he then rushed it through the firm and then down to the SJIB main office in Edinburgh and 2 weeks later i got my red electricians card and a week later he paid me tradesmans rate 2 years later he also put me through my approved green card 2 months early and I think it was his way of saying sorry about the onc so ok I did it all in 5 years 6 months but they got their moneys worth because I was running jobs and training hoosebashers in I&C in my 4th year. One other point was a guy who started a year before me he flew through his qualifications but he was told that he would be held back a year for his approved as the employer could do this if he thought you were not up to it.

Now I read some posts and guys want it now dont get me wrong we cannot go back to 6 years to gain approved but at the same time you should not get it cos you have a bunch o papers within 2 years.

 

[ian.settle1]

Ayjay, you should be able to renew your card, as an installation electrician.
You won't get approved again untill you have the 2391 or whatever the JIB will be accepting as it's replacement.
To renew your card, all you should need, is the ECS health and safety exam, and the 17th.

Not to sure but once you have been graded at a certain grade then the JIB can't degrade you to a lesser grade

 

[ian.settle1]

Interesting comments here. I argue that the electrical industry is in a mess as far as registration and qualifications are going

Back in the 70s oldtimer is basically correct. To become an electrician you needed c&g235 A, a log book and an up to 5 year apprenticeship dependent on what age you started. Basically you could not be an electrician before age 21.
To be an approved electrician you needed to have been graded as an electrician for at least 2 years and have passed the c&g235 B.

Sorry to disagree but you could complete your apprenticeeship and be graded as an electrician when you where 20 when I served my time in a JIB company the JIB stated that if you passed your B certificate with distinctions then your company could complete your apprenticeship and have you graded as an electrician when you where 19.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Not to sure but once you have been graded at a certain grade then the JIB can't degrade you to a lesser grade

I was thinking that as well Ian, but old Spin is normally spot on with things, and I can only go on a lad I know about 4 yrs ago who let his approved card slip, but just did the ECS, and got it back, and never had the 2391-20, so I thought it may have changed again.

I know that new upgrades from electrician to approved need the 2391-10 or whatever flavour it is now, and a letter from an employer

 

[stephanjs]

Thanks ian.settle1 for your comments. If you read the rest of my post you will note that I said that you could early. Like oldtimer (who also agrees with me) I got distinctions in all my exams. I even sst the 235 A when I just turned 17 and passed them with distinctions too. My college, Paddington Technical college, allowed me to do so. I was graded as an electrician one the same day I was 20 ending my apprenticeship.

But following the posts, the grading route is you have to be a JIB graded electrician for at least 2 years before you can apply for an approved grade.

I have since gone on to teaching the level 3 courses like IET regulations and inspection and testing. I&T is a difficult exam and there is no forgiveness if one makes a mistake in answering a question. In real life, if the tester makes a mistake, someone can die (Electrical testing saves lives,get tested to-day). As hard as the exam is, I fully agree with it as it makes the person think about what they are doing.

Incidentally, as the new Design and Verification (2396) qualifications have changed to a level 4, I sat them. It is a good exam still but does not leave much time to answer all the questions. You have to know what you are talking about to pass.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Paddington Technical college,

When was you there Stephen................... I did my A B C at Wandsworth Technical College, which is now South Thames College I think between 70-75.

We played Paddington Tec at football in 73 and got slaughtered by them, but the drink after was great. They had pitches in Maida Vale if I remember right

 

[stephanjs]

Spot on malcolmsanford. I was 13/14 in 1973 though. I started in September 1975. For the first year we attended Saltram Crescent, part time day and evening. 2nd and third years were at Paddington Green. One of my lecturers there was also on the team that was righting the new 15th edition of the regulations. Did not know how much an impact that left on me then but looking back now I can see. I left in June 1979. I worked at Star Electrical who were based at George Street. They did a log of BHS stores all over the country.
For the C I moved to Willesden Technical College at Walm Lane.

There was an older apprentice named Kevin Jolly (who rode a motorbike) he attended Wandsworth at about the same time you were there. You may know him.