Are people moving away from rings

[MG201]

hi all I’m just wondering are the forum members moving away from doing ring circuits and doing radials instead ? I have been reading that this may be the way industry is going wether this is to aid in the introduction of AFDDs I don’t know , obviously AFDDs won’t work in rings, that’s why I recon radials will have to be standard before AFDDs are used.
There will no doughy be some sparks who install AFDDs on rings which will defeat the purpose of them , ( if I’m right )
Should all new builds now be installing radials ??

 

[Flanders]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[Flanders]

No one has discounted overloading as a safety issue, the observation was about comparative risk from a fault condition. RFCs have a useful safety feature that they suppress arcing if a conductor breaks, but now we are asked to make an arc more likely so an AFDD can detect it. It's fair to ask whether that improves or degrades electrical safety.

What's the greater hazard, a 5000 degree plasma in part of a PVC cable, or a temperature rise of a few degrees along it's length? I don't know the answer but I'd like to see some UK evidence before dumping RFCs and adopting a solution designed for the hazards of American domestic wiring.

Looks like we need John Ward to do one of his experiments

 

[Mike Johnson]

I suppose eventually we will adopt the EU standard of dual MCB's and spur's, together with dedicated spur's for appliances, Brexit accepted.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Duplicate post?

 

[Pete999]

I suppose eventually we will adopt the EU standard of dual MCB's and spur's, together with dedicated spur's for appliances, Brexit accepted.

By Dual CBs I presume you mean DP CBs, as for appliances on their own dedicated circuit, a good idea in my book especially for the larger appliances greater than 2KW as an example.

 

[Shoei]

Don't protect a 2.5mm2 socket radial with a 32 Amp OCPD should be a 20 Amp, 32 Amp radial will require 4mm2 Amendment 15 BBB.

Agree, those numbers illustrate worst case if you have a 32A protected 2.5mm RFC, and it breaks somewhere, putting max current on one sector of the ring.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Most of the special circuits, that should be on an individual DP CB if I can remember them all are:
Washing Machine
Tumble Dryer
Oven
Hob
Dish Washer
Water Heater
UFH
Fridge On separate RCD
Freezer On separate RCD
Alarms
Outside dependancies
Garage
Electric heating inc ASHP
Towel Rails
Extract Fans
Max of eight sockets on 1.5mm protected by 16A
Max of twelve sockets on 2.5mm protected by 20A
No ring mains allowed
All lighting to have an earth running to them even if not used
Everything metal has to be earthed even if built into the walls
No T & E allowed all cables must be double insulated and of the same cross section
That's all I can think of at the moment, but if anyone is interested PM me and I can direct to the best information source.

 

[chrisdungan]

I'm a Kiwi sparkie ( actually a registered electrical inspector). I've worked in Eire and the UK 2007/8. in our part of the world ring circuits are almost completely unknown in domestic. Probably for the same reason you guys do rings. "Because that's the way we've always done it........"
There are pluses and minuses in both systems.
Here we usually wire our radial circuits in 2.5 stranded, the cheapskates will use 1.5. Yes I know seems weird to you guys but we wire domestic lighting circuits in 1.0mm. the only time we use solid conductor is in 1.omm all the other sizes are stranded!
So modern kitchens usually have 2 circuits with a separate circuit going to the separate laundry. In kiwi land we don't put clothes washers in the kitchen, they go in a serarate laundry room or a laundry space in the garage ( usually a double or treble in a bigger house)
These days that 2.5mm circuit will often be rated at 16amp rather than 20 because of our derating factors due to thermal insulation. RCDs are required and now AFDDs are becoming the norm.
Faultfinding and testing with radials is a breeze.
The only downside with a house full of radials and a switchboard full of CBs, RCDs and AFDDs is you need a minimum of 45 ways. 60 ways if you have PV and you live in the country with a water pump and septic disposal system. There are even some councils that now require rain water storage and pumping for non potable water like toilet flushing and garden watering in town.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Have they done away with Licencing for Electricians now?

 

[Mike Johnson]

No you don't need a licence to be a SA

 

[Pete999]

No you don't need a licence to be a SA

What's an SA?

 

[Mike Johnson]

S as in Smart A as in, use your imagination, but your avatar has a plug attached to it.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I was enquiring as to whether New Zealand had done away with licencing for Electricians.
I’ve been informed that they have, thought I’d ask a Kiwi whether it is in fact the case.

 

[Midwest]

I was enquiring as to whether New Zealand had done away with licencing for Electricians.
I’ve been informed that they have, thought I’d ask a Kiwi whether it is in fact the case.

That saw wrist is making you unusually cranky.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I was enquiring as to whether New Zealand had done away with licencing for Electricians.
I’ve been informed that they have, thought I’d ask a Kiwi whether it is in fact the case.

In that case you could have worded your original post better, it looks like one of those SA comments you get on here when someone ask's for advice.