Bandsaw question

[netblindpaul]

Dave,
Switch them in the inlet mate, please take some pics & get me the machine serial no if you can as I'll get the manuf to check the remaining stock in the batch, and possibly issue a notice to the dealers who have machines from the batch in stock.
They will also send this back to the manuf plant.
We may even be able to get a recall type issue done if you can get me sufficient info.
Read the PM before the forum post!
Please read the two in conjunction.

 

[davelerave]

i'm not doing anything for time being

paul-why would you switch the wires at inlet if you were doing it? as polarity and colour coding are correct to starter

 

[netblindpaul]

I have misunderstood then.
I read it as the live from the inlet was going to the incorrect location in the starter.
I have the starter drawing here from the manuf'.
The design and wiring were correct the last time I looked, mind I don't recall any control fuses, they are not required for a simple machine.
TUV have CE marked the machine as it is an Annexe 4 machine which must be inspected & tested by a 3rd party for CE marking.
I am now not sure of what the issue you have is, I understood it as reverse polarity on the supply side in the internal machine wiring?

 

[davelerave]

the power wiring from inlet to motor ,through contactor is correct

they have reverse polarity on the wiring of stop and door switches

simply a matter of switching 2 control wires in starter to correct problem

i appreciate you didn't have benefit of looking at machine



i also notice that 1 pole of the 3-pole thermal overload relay is unused-to my mind this is incorrect

so all in all i've decided not to do anything for the moment

paul-i'll get back to you with a serial number and picture in next few days in case the problem is more widespread

 

[Knobhead]

I give up! What should have taken an apprentice 30 minutes to sort out has taken over a day of qualified time to sort out! Bloody information super highway, I don’t think so!

On the one hand we get 1/2th the information needed, then someone trying to cover up known faults on imported goods.

And by the way the overload, if thermal, is wired wrong! Magnetic, you’ll get away with it.


I haven’t taken my medication for the day yet! I think I need it!

 

[netblindpaul]

Tony,
You need your medication mate.
Your comment about covering up faults on imported goods is slanderous in the least.
My intention is NOT to cover it up if your comment is aimed at me it is to ensure that it is sorted.
The machine will be CE marked any mods you do will invalidate the CE marking thus the compliance with the LVD & the Machinery Directive and thus PUWER98, therefore you will be solely and personally responsible for the machine.
I am awaiting your apolgy.

 

[Engineer54]

Sounds like this machine could have been manufactured in France!! .....Hell, the times i've seen the neutral conductor being used as the switching/control side of things in French stuff doesn't bear thinking about....

Even remember seeing wiring methods of Merlin Gerin components, being shown in one of there catalogues, ... showing the neutral being used on the switching side.
That was a good few years ago mind, whether they still show that in any of there recent publications i don't know!!!

 

[davelerave]

I have misunderstood then.
I read it as the live from the inlet was going to the incorrect location in the starter.
I have the starter drawing here from the manuf'.
The design and wiring were correct the last time I looked, mind I don't recall any control fuses, they are not required for a simple machine.
TUV have CE marked the machine as it is an Annexe 4 machine which must be inspected & tested by a 3rd party for CE marking.
I am now not sure of what the issue you have is, I understood it as reverse polarity on the supply side in the internal machine wiring?

yes-maybe my description didn't make it clear the reversal is only on the control wiring taken from L1 L2 and that the main wiring from inlet through contactor to motor is correct

so obviously only the control wiring can be reversed and not the supply

i'll send on pictures and serial number early next week

 

[Knobhead]

Tony,
You need your medication mate.
Your comment about covering up faults on imported goods is slanderous in the least.
My intention is NOT to cover it up if your comment is aimed at me it is to ensure that it is sorted.
The machine will be CE marked any mods you do will invalidate the CE marking thus the compliance with the LVD & the Machinery Directive and thus PUWER98, therefore you will be solely and personally responsible for the machine.
I am awaiting your apolgy.

I do apologise. I’m not at my best at the moment anti depressants and painkillers mixed with booze aren’t a good mix.

Now I’ll ask nicely, how can a bit of kit get CE conformity when it’s got a blatant problem? I was under the impression that CE marked goods had to be up to a minimum standard. I’ve had to work with the French Bureau de Veritas in the past, I found them to be very lax. But they had to give the seal of approval to all our work for this particular contract. They were passing stuff I wouldn’t let out the gate, in the end the customer sacked them! I for one was glad to see the back of them.

 

[netblindpaul]

OK Tony, apology accepted, thank you.
The machine in question will have been CE marked by TUV of Germany, one of the most respected test houses in the World.
It will have been "type" approved, for serial build.
That is the design and first build will have been accepted, then the machine will be built to that design over its production life, like type approval of road cars for example.
It could be a quality control issue in the factory, we don't know at this stage and unless I get the serial no. we will never know.
This can happen with all manufacturing systems of this type and often happens with cards, think Toyota, Ford, Honda in recent years, and in the electrical world think of the recent mcb recalls by various manufacturers.
This "could possibly" be a similar quality issue rather than a design problem or a fundamental issue with the machine manufacture, or, it could just be a simple misunderstanding due to the way the colours are used as 60204-1 colours do not fully align with 7671.

 

[davelerave]

one shows the reversal on controls

the other shows the 2-poles utilised on 3-pole TOR


starter is mounted upside down in case it's confusing

 

[Engineer54]

one shows the reversal on controls

the other shows the 2-poles utilised on 3-pole TOR


starter is mounted upside down in case it's confusing

Davelerave,

I think Paul is still waiting for you to supply him with this machines serial number, so he can do some checking on your behalf!!

Disregard this post if you have supplied this information via PM system...lol!!!

 

[netblindpaul]

Engineer54, et al.,
I have the machine serial no and the pics, I have contacted the manuf' service manager.
I will hear from either him, the engineering director or the MD within the next few days I would think.

 

[Engineer54]

Paul,

Thanks, ... Dave PM'd me confirming same...

Good to hear that such actions can be taken up between forum members.

 

[netblindpaul]

I have had acknowledgement of my communication.