Bang!

[Delboybully]

So I go to a job a couple of days ago in a small shop. One of the things to do is fix an RCD that isnt working in a dual RCD board (not that neat but ok, no labels), everything works but if you turn the RCD off it doesnt disconnect the supply to the 4 MCBs it covers. Also the test button doesnt work. Take the cover off the board and the RCD isnt bypassed, it looks like it has failed closed.

I do a quick Ze, turn off the MCBs, RCDs and the main switch, test for dead and replace the RCD. I then power up and the replacement RCD trips. So I then start doing combined IR test L+N to E for each circuit to find the offending circuit. MCBs 1,2 and 3 or ok

Which leaves circuit 4, I connect my jump lead to neutral and the live and BANG!!!!! Nice pirotechnics with a few bits of hot metal spraying around!
Luckily my jump leads have a plastic covering on them or I could have got a belt!

I can tell you I wasnt expecting that. Luckily my jump leads have a plastic covering on them or I would have got a belt! My apprentice missed the fireworks as he was getting stuff from the van but he was impressed with the jump lead afterwards with a bit missing and the charring on the live cable

So I do some more investigating and it turns out the cable coming into the MCB was live and coming from the upstairs flat and was feeding the other 3 circuits in the shop through the bus bar. The guy in the flat above (luckily he was in) told me he has been getting electric bills of roughly a grand every 3 months, no wonder he had been paying for half the electric bill for a small cafe.

Now I followed the safe isolation procedure as I always do but this still happened. I phoned the Elecsa technical helpline and the guy said you followed the safe isolation procedure and its just one of those things you occasional see. He suggested waving a volt stick around the board in future. I then needed to phone the technical helpline again today on another matter so I asked the new guy the same thing, he again said that there isnt much you can do about these things.

I am one of the hated 5WWs, been doing this for approx 2.5 years. I am prepared for a slating, however I would be interested to learn how any of you would of approached this problem and would you of ended up in my situation. Obviously I followed the correct isolation procedure but still ended up in an undesirable spot. Any suggestions would be appreciated

Del

 

[micknew]

Marvo...i have one as well....but i certainly dont use it for `safe isolation`...caus it aint....

and its only used with discression

That sums it up.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

but i still want to know why this scam `technical helpline` thought it appropriate to hand out advice like that...

bloody apalling

 

[shanky887614]

if it worked, I have always said if you are stupid enough to use a volt stick then tape 2 together, if one packs up the other may work, appalling DIYers kit, whats wrong with using a IR tester after removing all lamps and turning switches on, removing all plugged in appliances and testing with 500 volts across each phase/live conductor and neutral then each phase and earth then each neutral and earth providing all breakers and the main switch is off? doing it this way, the correct way will avoid what happened, end of, just get a grip all of you, this is now turning into fred carney's circus.

a lot of the installs we come to have no paperwork in the panels at all.

voltsticks have there place. there are times with us that we can't turn the power off quite often.

for example it was only the other day that the guys had to swap a couple locks in a mental hospital and couldnt turn it power off because the fruitcakes would escape

 

[MDJ]

a lot of the installs we come to have no paperwork in the panels at all.

voltsticks have there place. there are times with us that we can't turn the power off quite often.

for example it was only the other day that the guys had to swap a couple locks in a mental hospital and couldnt turn it power off because the fruitcakes would escape

um no they do not, whats wrong with a 2 pronged voltage tester and a proving unit, okay thats it I'm off I canny take anymore here tonight.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

a lot of the installs we come to have no paperwork in the panels at all.

voltsticks have there place. there are times with us that we can't turn the power off quite often.

for example it was only the other day that the guys had to swap a couple locks in a mental hospital and couldnt turn it power off because the fruitcakes would escape

well...

as far as `not being able to turn the power off` is concerned...

i have had to consider this umpteen times....like when carrying out condition reports on a load of care homes recently...

there was a feed to the office that was unmarked at the board.....so the first thing you do when going into someware like that is ask the responsible person as to wether theres circuits that cant be powered down (a standard procedure)...nothing was labelled up in the panel concerned......i have a fuse finder that i can plug in...tells me which breaker is feeding the circuit that cant be powered down....then you label it up as such and note it...


the fact is theres a lot of panels/dis-boards about that are either labelled up incorrectly...not labelled up at all or tommy typhoon has been in there...so you never just assume anything....do you...

 

[shanky887614]

um no they do not, whats wrong with a 2 pronged voltage tester and a proving unit, okay thats it I'm off I canny take anymore here tonight.

have you worked in a hospital?

there are cables in the ceiling that could be fed from a floor above or below, boards on each.


HOW would YOU find them.

bearing in mind you dont know where it is fed from or where it goes.

 

[Delboybully]

It seems this thread of mine has caused some discussion amongst you all. The reason I posted this thread was that I wasnt 100% happy with the technical helpline response and I wanted to see how many of you with more experience and apprentice trained would of found yourself in my situation. It seems that high percentage of you would. I followed the safe isoaltion procedure of checking a board is isolated but it is clear this isnt enough.

The fact is the situation I found myself in shouldnt of happened- I made a mistake, end of, that wont happen again, A mistake that many would of made. The Elecsa technical helpline were very sympathetic as were a lot of you. I wish to thank all of you who were honest in that and supportive of me

I expected a bit more of a kicking that I received. One of the reasons I dont post very often is because of the Electrical Trainee bashing that goes on a lot on this forum. I am aware of the hatred of us 5WWs so please dont turn this into a Electrical Trainee bashing thread.

It has also been mentioned about whether I should have an apprentice, I shall start another thread on this in the next few days to see peoples opinions, likewise whether I should be doing small commercial jobs.

For the record I hold the 17th, 2392 and 2391 and some others I cant remember the numbers for.

I also hold the very difficult to pass PAT testing certificate (cant remeber the C&G number) but it was laughably easy to pass!

 

[MDJ]

have you worked in a hospital?

there are cables in the ceiling that could be fed from a floor above or below, boards on each.


HOW would YOU find them.

bearing in mind you dont know where it is fed from or where it goes.

once or twice yeah, and I still fail to see how a volt stick can help, I can rub it on my arm and it lights up like a christmas tree, totally crap testing equipment

 

[GLENNSPARK]

once or twice yeah, and I still fail to see how a volt stick can help, I can rub it on my arm and it lights up like a christmas tree, totally crap testing equipment

well judging by your avatar i`m not surprised...

 

[shanky887614]

well judging by your avatar i`m not surprised...

he is a monkey, he is used to playing with crap

 

[micknew]

well judging by your avatar i`m not surprised...

Priceless.

 

[jaypp]

once or twice yeah, and I still fail to see how a volt stick can help, I can rub it on my arm and it lights up like a christmas tree, totally crap testing equipment

can i employ you, your arms + voltstick towards end of december please? neighbours definately won't have that decoration!

 

[guest119]

We used them for stripping out redundant single cores in retail upgrades.

In a lighting circuit with a load on or plug the yellow tranny into a socket to apply a load then find the neutral.
Somebody at the trunking header or a few metres away can identify the feed ok with a voltstick but when the neutrals are not taped together you dont know which one you are looking for.
With a lighting or socket load on as above and all the neutrals lifted out of the trunking the one you need will light the voltstick when disconnected from the neutral bar.

Basic stuff really but saves a lot of time.

Boydy

 

[sparks1234]

Back in the day, I wished I had a volt stick, we stripped a house out, everything disconnected from the head, temp supply put on and off we went with our cutters, down in the basement 1 2-5 t & e was live, fed from next door, straight through the basement, god knows who put it in, made me jump though
Also had one last year in a warehouse, a double socket that was fed from next door, presumably the units had been linked at some stage.

 

[MDJ]

They are good for sticking in your shirt pocket next to the neon screwdriver, Mrs Jones and Mrs Smith down the road like to see a professional electrician turn up at their houses when the RCD trips out, the Volt stick looks the part haha