bathroom extractor with timer, and rcd fcu

[Steve34]

hi guys, i've been asked to put a bathroom extractor with timer, now i haven't done one for ages but it was always a simple matter of 3 core from the light through a 3 pole isolator switch to the fan, but the property has an old fuse board with no rcd protection, i am also led to believe that most timer extractors need to fused down to a 3A?

now i've never used an rcd fcu before, but if i cut into the feed just before the light and added the rcd fcu with a 3A fuse, and did the fan isolator as normal, would that be ok, or am i over complicating things?

thanks for any advise. steve

 

[Guitarist]

I think that if you are introducing cabling into the bathroom then I totally agree with you. If, however, you can tap into the circuit in the loft away from the light fitting, and keep it all surface mounted, then no RCD required.

 

[onions1066]

What just to install a bathroom fan?

Yes of course it would be the best option if the customer would pay for it, so you would rather leave a rewireable than upgrade if they are happy to pay? Dillb I don't think we will agree on anything because you like to work to the minimum requirements by the look of it and I would rather work above it. We will never cross paths so its not a massive issue.

 

[onions1066]

Which is a good point.

May be we should all stop buying fans which need fusing down.

vent axia fans are now internally fused, they are phasing all the old models out and using up all old stock,

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I think that if you are introducing cabling into the bathroom then I totally agree with you. If, however, you can tap into the circuit in the loft away from the light fitting, and keep it all surface mounted, then no RCD required.

Oh come on, thats far too full of common sense!!

 

[colshaws]

If you were to fit an inline fan mounted in the loft (whichs would then put the fan and any wiring outside of the bathroom),would this then negate the need for RCDprotection?

Becuase of the different opinions/replies to my question I thought I would check with the tec department at Elecsa and got their opinion.


Good afternoon Colin,
Thank you for your enquiry.

If the wiring is straight out the back of the bathroom light and into the loft and the wiring is at no point less than 50mm deep in a wall, then RCD protection would not be required.

Regards
Mark Cooper
Technical Desk | ECA Services Division

 

[Plonker 3]

Yes of course it would be the best option if the customer would pay for it, so you would rather leave a rewireable than upgrade if they are happy to pay? Dillb I don't think we will agree on anything because you like to work to the minimum requirements by the look of it and I would rather work above it. We will never cross paths so its not a massive issue.

so a job that should cost about £100 turns out to cost over £500 all because of a bathroom circuit. How many deaths have you heard of because the circuit wasn't RCD protected?

Not many is it? So did people die randomly from electric shocks before RCDS were used?

 

[Guitarist]

so a job that should cost about £100 turns out to cost over £500 all because of a bathroom circuit. How many deaths have you heard of because the circuit wasn't RCD protected?

Not many is it? So did people die randomly from electric shocks before RCDS were used?[/QUOTE]

Actually, quite a few I believe

 

[onions1066]

so a job that should cost about £100 turns out to cost over £500 all because of a bathroom circuit. How many deaths have you heard of because the circuit wasn't RCD protected?

Not many is it? So did people die randomly from electric shocks before RCDS were used?

I said it was the best option, so if you came across a rewireable board you would just install the fan and be happy without even mentioning the need of an upgrade to the customer? That is not good practice or the actions of a competent electrician

- - - Updated - - -

so a job that should cost about £100 turns out to cost over £500 all because of a bathroom circuit. How many deaths have you heard of because the circuit wasn't RCD protected?

Not many is it? So did people die randomly from electric shocks before RCDS were used?

Obviously not many died because dillb said so

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I am supprised by some of the comments on this thread, and especially by the ESC's advice.
The requirement is to provide 30mA RCD protection for circuits of locations containing baths or showers.
As such the only way to comply with BS7671 is to provide 30mA RCD protection for the circuit.
Not part of the circuit, or just a bit but for the whole circuit.
Yes the options are to either replace the CU if it's one that either an RCD or RCBO cannot be fitted to.
Or install a stand alone CU next to the existing and place the RCD protection there.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Ultimately, BS7671 is more defining than a middlemans help desk.

 

[Guitarist]

I am supprised by some of the comments on this thread, and especially by the ESC's advice.
The requirement is to provide 30mA RCD protection for circuits of locations containing baths or showers.
As such the only way to comply with BS7671 is to provide 30mA RCD protection for the circuit.
Not part of the circuit, or just a bit but for the whole circuit.
Yes the options are to either replace the CU if it's one that either an RCD or RCBO cannot be fitted to.
Or install a stand alone CU next to the existing and place the RCD protection there.

As I keep being told by Elecsa tech help whenever I query something, "You are only responsible for the work YOU carry out". If you have not introduced new cabling into a room containing a bath or shower, then the customer is not obliged to pay for RCD protection. That said, if you carried out a like-for-like shower replacement and the manufacturers instructions state that RCD protection is required, or you replaced an extractor fan within a bathroom that states 3 amp protection is needed, then of course this must be complied with. I will always recommend RCD protection as per current regs, but I cannot insist on it where it is not breaking regulations.

 

[telectrix]

well put,

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As I keep being told by Elecsa tech help whenever I query something, "You are only responsible for the work YOU carry out". If you have not introduced new cabling into a room containing a bath or shower, then the customer is not obliged to pay for RCD protection. That said, if you carried out a like-for-like shower replacement and the manufacturers instructions state that RCD protection is required, or you replaced an extractor fan within a bathroom that states 3 amp protection is needed, then of course this must be complied with. I will always recommend RCD protection as per current regs, but I cannot insist on it where it is not breaking regulations.

Guitarist, could you please explain why you have quoted my post and then posted what you have?
As far as I can work out the only bit which appears relevant to either the OP or my post is the information Elecsa have provided you: i.e. "You are only reponsible for the work YOU carry out".
Perhaps other's hold a different opinion, but the information Elecsa have provided is no different to what I would provide, and have provided in this instance and on many other occasions.

As far as I'm aware the OP does not intend replacing a fan or a shower.
As such I have difficulty grasping why you believe such work has any relevance to either the OP or my post?

Again as far as I'm aware (I can only go by what the OP has posted), the OP is intending to extend an existing circuit, by installing a fan into a location containing a bath or shower.
Unless the OP intends the electricity to walk to the fan (I asssume they don't as they have made referrence to 3core from the light), then the addition will entail the introduction of new cabling.

I don't particuarly want to be rude, but if you do intend in the future to quote any of my posts, I would prefer it if your post actually had some relevance.
Thank you.

 

[HandySparks]

I think the thread diverted slightly at Post 9, where the option of locating the fan in the loft was mentioned, and therefore the possibility of keeping all new wiring out of the bathroom.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think the thread diverted slightly at Post 9, where the option of locating the fan in the loft was mentioned, and therefore the possibility of keeping all new wiring out of the bathroom.

Does it actually matter whether the fan is situated in the loft or the location?
Unless the fan is to be permanently on, or there is to be a separate supply and switch.
Somewhere along the way, the circuit feeding the light in the location will be extended.