Being self employed and the coronavirus

[davesparks]

That is not a universally-accepted view though. It is merely one view - and the one which has received backing of many governments. And it completely ignores the effects of the lockdown, which will lead to excess deaths in and of itself. This is undeniable.

No view will be universally accepted, nor will any scientific theory, just look at those who believe the earth is flat and the theory of gravity is wrong because it is 'just a theory'

Science has done the best it can to model the possible outcomes and come up with at strategy that works the best in their simulations/predictions. It won't be 100% the bets thing to do because they won't know that until after the event has happened.

How is lockdown leading to excess deaths?

I don't believe the government is ignoring the effects of the lockdown, I think they are well aware of them

 

[Risteard]

How is lockdown leading to excess deaths?

Do you know the effects of a Depression?

Do you know how many suicides; lost years due to ill-health etc. were there from the recent recession?

Also lost tax revenue for the healthcare system etc. They are already talking about on average losing 3 months of life for every member of the population. As the depression escalates that too will escalate.

There will be untold deaths as a result of this. But they won't be as visible in the news sadly.

 

[davesparks]

Do you know the effects of a Depression?

Do you know how many suicides; lost years due to ill-health etc. were there from the recent recession?

Also lost tax revenue for the healthcare system etc. They are already talking about on average losing 3 months of life for every member of the population. As the depression escalates that too will escalate.

There will be untold deaths as a result of this. But they won't be as visible in the news sadly.

Yes I know the effects of depression very well, along with the other mental illnesses I suffer.

This doesn't really answer how the lock down is leading to excess deaths.
If there was no lockdown the pandemic would still be happening and more people would catch the virus.
This will also lead to an increase in depression, suicide, significantly increased stress, higher stress on the health are system.

You can't say that the lockdown is the only thing that could cause an excess of deaths not directly related to the virus.

 

[pirate]

I fully accept what you say davesparks, it was simply an example for illustration purposes. However, when i was working and paying 40% every £1 above the threshold was taxed at that rate. I simply intended to show the sort of actual top rate that might be paid by Joe Public, and that includes "luxury" items like tobacco and alcohol, which are voluntary purchases.
I also stand by the fact that when I was a consumer of tobacco and alcohol, i was always happy that i contributed massively to the Treasury to help my fellow citizens!
As for your comment about failing to provide for the possibility of a couple of months not trading, yes it is not the government's fault...we all have to make some provision for that if we can...hence my exhortation to my daughter to have 3 months' mortgage payments in a separate account...but, sadly, the reality is that not everyone can do that. The reasons are many and varied, but whatever they are, it's just not feasible for the vast majority, I believe.
I will bore you with another thought. In years gone by, the banks paid interest. Now, they don't. Ok, they do, but at insulting rates. What has happened to the interest they used to pay? They claim it has disappeared on the money they make, so we have to suffer. Not seen too many banks suffering recently...
my bank sent me a letter recently, highlighting the fact that with rates being so low, due to the Base rate being lowered, they were cutting the interest rates on 2 of my accounts. One account currently pays 0.05% ( a paltry sum anyway) and this is being cut to 0.01%...so in real money terms, not a lot, but percentage wise quite a big cut. The other one currently basks in a huge 0.10%...which will become also 0.01%...a huge cut percentage wise. In money to spend, it's nothing because i keep very little in those accounts, but look back a few years, no, decades ,when you could get 8% on bank interest and people relied on that on their savings to live in retirement...well, we've come a long way, and it's not a good way.
The reality is that for many reasons folks live up to their incomes in a way that was unthinkable a few decades ago, and that led to folks having it all...provided the cash kept coming in to service the borrowings that they were enticed to take...and that has become the norm, sadly. The winners?
The banks. Always. We have become the slaves.

 

[Risteard]

In case you're in any doubt as to the seriousness of the economic situation, half of the workforce in the south of Ireland are on benefits (predominantly COVID benefits). This €350/week payment will of course be reduced in early May, possibly to the standard unemployment benefit of €203/week.

(Don't get hung up on the amount being paid - cost of living is substantially higher. It is, obviously, much more generous than similar UK benefits though.)

Scale of challenge on economy, households 'very clear'

591,000 people are now receiving the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment, with around 21,000 receiving it for the first time this week.

www.rte.ie

 

[telectrix]

@davesparks. re universal credit. bloody joke. 2nd line of the eligibility conditions:

"you’re under State Pension age (or your partner is)"

so that counts me out. like wise what used to be DLA and is npw PIPS.( I have COPD, a knackered back, and heart valve flutter).... over 65, no bloody chance.

 

[pirate]

Correct, Tel. They just want you to die! Work your backside off all your life, pay huge taxes on smokes and booze, then die before they have to pay you a pension or take care of your health problems.
My aim, to beat the system, is to live forever...
so far. so good, as the old saying goes!

 

[telectrix]

@ 73, i think my measly state pension has just about recouped all the tax i've spent on smokes and beer. another 10 years and i might just get back fuel taxes and VAT. if i live past 83, i can start on recouping income tax.

 

[buzzlightyear]

its ok for the employed peaple to get 80 percent from the government this made in China virus i bet they're laughing their heads off.
It's now P?? ING me off now being self employed either go bang and join the dole cue or wait till this blows over in a few months in which I have not got like some peaple.

 

[Baddegg]

I was speaking to a builder yesterday, self employed, no kids or mrs (living the dream!) and he just got accepted for UC with an advance lump sum of £700.....

 

[buzzlightyear]

I was speaking to a builder yesterday, self employed, no kids or mrs (living the dream!) and he just got accepted for UC with an advance lump sum of £700.....

wow, were do I sign up. the end of the day they will get that money back by hook or by crook.

 

[Baddegg]

wow, were do I sign up. the end of the day they will get that money back by hook or by crook.

Oh yeah nothing is free but it gets him out of a hole for now....i wasn’t sure to believe him but I’ve known him a while and he seemed genuinely relieved, he reckons it was simplistic, I’m fortunate that I don’t need it so couldn’t comment on the system, I’ve heard/read of it being hard work normally, but I’m glad people are actually getting help....

 

[buzzlightyear]

I’m glad people are actually getting help....

Not the self employed the forgotten army.

 

[Baddegg]

He is self employed mate and he qualified for whatever universal credit is.....and he can still claim the payment in June as well he reckons...

 

[mattg4321]

You self employed sole traders shouldn't complain too much.

I'm one of 2 directors of a ltd company. At the moment we are the only employees, although we have had more in the past. We are not eligible for the self employed scheme as we are somewhere between self employed and employed (usually depending on whether it suits the taxman or not).

We both paid around £500 less tax last year than a sole trader would have, yet we can only furlough for the PAYE portion of our income.

Would have to live on £585 each a month and if furloughed we're not allowed to work. We still have to pay van costs, scam fees, insurances etc etc out of this. It's a bit of a joke as we had months of work lined up before this. Some of it has stopped because we can't work in peoples homes in most cases and some because of lack of materials holding jobs up - plaster and plasterboard mostly it seems.

Currently working 1 week in 4 to try and keep money coming in. Bloody irritating that we are not allowed to keep working and receive help like SE can. People have an impression that dividends are a massive tax dodge and fiddle, yet you can only use the system legally as it is put in front of you. Some people suggest we should pay our wages entirely PAYE. If we did this our tax liability would be thousands more than any other type of employment a year. Dividends are taxed at 7.5% for basic rate taxpayers and that's after you've already paid 19% corporation tax on the same money.

Can imagine quite a few people will be deferring their VAT bill and folding the company later on in the year with nothing left within it. Government needs to come up with a grant for businesses without premises IMO. Otherwise furloughed employees will go down with the director/owners.

In better news we have already received the (paltry) furlough money for April from HMRC.