Best EV Charger without Earth Rod?

[pc1966]

I don't what the Zappi charger actually does, but they've applied for a patent, so are not saying much.

Patents can be granted for near-trivial variations unfortunately.

I would be very surprised if it is anything revolutionary, most likely it is simply monitoring the CPC current (probably also another to check the live current imbalance) and tripping all live & CPC on a detected fault.

So an RCD by another name...or the VOELCB given a current-sensing makeover!

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I believe the pod point still requires a Type A DP 30mA RCD where as the Zappi does not.

 

[Midwest]

Does that help, in the case of a broken PEN conductor?

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Does that help, in the case of a broken PEN conductor?

It’s a very valid question, I’m not 100% sure

 

[Sparkingmad]

I am doing an extension with garage at home. Before I install insulation and double board the ceiling I thought about running a T&E cable to the front of the garage for future EV charger. Trying to get an SWA in through joists will be a pain. Run for cable is 15mtrs on TNS supply, I know that you can’t guarantee a TNS supply as DNO can convert it to TNCS. My question is can I use the CPC in the T&E cable if I use one of the PEN conductor relay chargers or should I run separate earth cable to charger from C/U? Can I also run a cat5e cable from potential charger location back to router? I am booked on C&G 2 day EV course in Feb but want to get the cables in and ceilings boarded. Any help & advice please.
Also I read Ford Transit Custom EV give charging times based on 3ph chargers so am I right in thinking Ford have basically made an EV van that is totally useless for domestic charging unless you work for a company that has a 3ph supply and you can charge it there or use commercial charging stations?

 

[UKPN]

You are correct Rolec have released one a few weeks ago that does not need an earth rod

And do they meet the legal ESQCR regulations?

 

[DPG]

And do they meet the legal ESQCR regulations?

You would hope a company like that would be complying with the appropriate regulations. Someone purchasing equipment from a reputable seller shouldn't have to delve into this.

 

[UKPN]

You would hope a company like that would be complying with the appropriate regulations. Someone purchasing equipment from a reputable seller shouldn't have to delve into this.

The reason I ask, DPG, is the earthing facility is DNOs PME. We all know the rules, no PME outside without certain precautions. Who knows, what does it say in the manufactures details?

 

[Sparkingmad]

Rolec are releasing a new catalogue I believe which goes into detail about the EV charging points with PEN conductor fault relay

 

[a-z electrics]

Theres a range from EVCP got the open PEN protection.. I think TLC just started selling them under the syncev brand name. Very basic and compact, I believe price reasonable. And the installer approval is just an email from them
Zappi are the dogs tho, had one myself for 2 years now..

 

[a-z electrics]

I am doing an extension with garage at home. Before I install insulation and double board the ceiling I thought about running a T&E cable to the front of the garage for future EV charger. Trying to get an SWA in through joists will be a pain. Run for cable is 15mtrs on TNS supply, I know that you can’t guarantee a TNS supply as DNO can convert it to TNCS. My question is can I use the CPC in the T&E cable if I use one of the PEN conductor relay chargers or should I run separate earth cable to charger from C/U? Can I also run a cat5e cable from potential charger location back to router? I am booked on C&G 2 day EV course in Feb but want to get the cables in and ceilings boarded. Any help & advice please.
Also I read Ford Transit Custom EV give charging times based on 3ph chargers so am I right in thinking Ford have basically made an EV van that is totally useless for domestic charging unless you work for a company that has a 3ph supply and you can charge it there or use commercial charging stations?

Yeah just run a 6mm t&e and a cat 5 cable, thats what I did,
I had a rolec but changed it for a zappi (mainly cos I have solar).. soon all chargers will have the open pen protection or else those that dont will go bust i reckon.

 

[Midwest]

Yeah just run a 6mm t&e and a cat 5 cable, thats what I did,
I had a rolec but changed it for a zappi (mainly cos I have solar).. soon all chargers will have the open pen protection or else those that dont will go bust i reckon.

How do these chargers work, without some reference to Earth and the same issues you have with earth rods and your neighbours earth rods or extraneous metal parts. Genuine question.

 

[Deleted account]

When you install the rod for a EV Charger it needs to be 2 Metres away from any services bonded to a TN system. So any underground metal works such as gas pipes etc. Also the car needs to be 2m away from anything on a different earthing system when charging, so if you can touch your car and Mrs Jones next doors outside tap, it can’t happen.
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Absolute nightmare.

Absolutely agree.
ive been waiting for these new chargers to come out as I was not willing to fit them without the new PEN fault detectors.

Anyone ant clue on the price point of these.

 

[pc1966]

How do these chargers work, without some reference to Earth and the same issues you have with earth rods and your neighbours earth rods or extraneous metal parts. Genuine question.

As far as I understand it, the cheaper/simpler ones just look for over/under supply volts implying on open PEN somewhere.

I think the Zappi ones have what is effectively a 3-pole RCD so an earth current via the CPC also trips (not just L/N imbalance) so a live PEN and unfortunate car wash experiance is hopefully not fatal when the CPC powers them.

 

[a-z electrics]

How do these chargers work, without some reference to Earth and the same issues you have with earth rods and your neighbours earth rods or extraneous metal parts. Genuine question.

Hmm good question.. you have to read the 2020 amendment 1; in particular 722.411.4.1 (iv) and (v). If the device detects L - N >253Vrms and <207Vrms within 5s then the vehicle will be isolated from the supply, including the cpc. So its basically referencing off the supply voltage..