Bonding dilemma

[growler]

So I turned up to a job today to install an electric heating system for a company I sub for and straight away found that there is no main bonding to either gas or water. They have recently had a new extension / kitchen and a new consumer unit ( no cert though). The gas bond is not an issue as the meter is located next to the consumer unit but the water bond is a fair distance away and the customer is adamant he doesn't want me to disrupt his house anymore than it is already. I can't just walk away either as their wet system Central heating has been removed and the couple are in there 70s.
what to do ?

 

[7029 dave]

Back in the day the gas and water pipes were commonly used as the earthing system, don't forget lighting was not earthed and the nature of incoming supplies has changed too which rises the risk of network faults piggy backing on bonded services.

Yeah, and totally unacceptable.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I think this has been a good thread. It takes alot of guts to stand up on this forum and admit to doing anything that doesn't follow 'correct practise'. I'm guessing, but I expect the majority of electrical installers would main bond if they could, but if the customer refused they would do the work anyway and make a note on the cert.

I'm glad I haven't been put in the moral position of making that decision yet as bonding has always been there (bar one case - another story). I think I would quote for main bonding to be installed but if they refused the entire job because of that extra work I would be inclined to bond to the most convenient pipe (assuming continuity). If they still refused I would like to think I would decline the work, but I dont know the answer to that yet for sure!

 

[Darkwood]

The thing is in the rare circumstance someone is killed due to Electricution and the circumstances are investigated guess who signed of a cert for their work saying they left the install in a dangerous state!... Knowingly!!

Also if there was one inclination that correct bonding may have made the difference, doesn't have to be definately just has to be possibly then you will see your harris up in court defending why you walked from an unsafe install you had just done work on.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

The thing is in the rare circumstance someone is killed due to Electricution and the circumstances are investigated guess who signed of a cert for their work saying they left the install in a dangerous state!... Knowingly!!

Also if there was one inclination that correct bonding may have made the difference, doesn't have to be definately just has to be possibly then you will see your harris up in court defending why you walked from an unsafe install you had just done work on.

Kind of pushes the installer to one of two extremes doesn't it. Either insist on installing main bonding and walk if they refuse, or do the job and dont issue any kind of certificate!

 

[Darkwood]

Kind of pushes the installer to one of two extremes doesn't it. Either insist on installing main bonding and walk if they refuse, or do the job and dont issue any kind of certificate!

And here lies the moral dilema, your decision would be factored on a few things which may conflict in your mind like say your professionalism against your need to pay the bills... but at the end of the day you should walk; end of!... You are now required to fit RCD protection on all domestic sockets (excluding the rare exemptions), would you fit them unprotected because the customer can't afford a new board etc - same Dilema and can lead to same fatal result. You do it once, then twice then you need to ask yourself who exactly is the cowboy within our trade while passing the mirror..:thinking:

 

[Redvanman]

I've printed off a NIC fact sheet about earthing and give it out when quoting if the customers raising their eyebrows. If they still say no I turn the job down after telling them that any reputable electrician will tell them the same.

 

[Essex_]

So the client has a shiny kitchen, a new CU , no cert, no bonding. This happens ALL the time.

If the customer is adament they won't have it, what do you do? Walk away and let the next cowboy do it or do the gas, note the cert and do the rest of the work properly. I know what I would do.

That is exactly what you should do yes.

 

[richy3333]

If you contact the ESC (or whatever their called now) they'll send you out a free pack of leaflets on earthing and bonding to hand out to customers.

 

[Essex_]

Anyone ?

Probably because toilets were in the garden and heating was by a fireplace. Lol

 

[Essex_]

I think this has been a good thread. It takes alot of guts to stand up on this forum and admit to doing anything that doesn't follow 'correct practise'. I'm guessing, but I expect the majority of electrical installers would main bond if they could, but if the customer refused they would do the work anyway and make a note on the cert.

I'm glad I haven't been put in the moral position of making that decision yet as bonding has always been there (bar one case - another story). I think I would quote for main bonding to be installed but if they refused the entire job because of that extra work I would be inclined to bond to the most convenient pipe (assuming continuity). If they still refused I would like to think I would decline the work, but I dont know the answer to that yet for sure!

I must disagree. Most electricians I know certainly would not just note it on the cert. Totally unacceptable.

 

[micknew]

I must disagree. Most electricians I know certainly would not just note it on the cert. Totally unacceptable.

100% correct.

 

[Leesparkykent]

A departure on a cert is something that doesn't comply with bs7671 yet offers the same degree of safety as compliance. Do you think not bonding the water meets this criteria?
Departures on a cert are not a get out of jail free card.

 

[GEOFF S]

So I turned up to a job today to install an electric heating system for a company I sub for and straight away found that there is no main bonding to either gas or water. They have recently had a new extension / kitchen and a new consumer unit ( no cert though). The gas bond is not an issue as the meter is located next to the consumer unit but the water bond is a fair distance away and the customer is adamant he doesn't want me to disrupt his house anymore than it is already. I can't just walk away either as their wet system Central heating has been removed and the couple are in there 70s.
what to do ?

Will your system be utilising ADS, if so bonding is required, or your work to will be non compliant, which makes you no better than the last cowboy.

Educate the customer, if that fails, walk, YOU will be the cowboy when the next electrician walks in, a bad name can spread fast!!

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Not aware that bonding is required for ADS?

 

[ipf]

Nice one Spin. Just come across this thread. Used to be EEBADS.....Earthed Equipotential Bonding AND Automatic Disconnection of Supply.