Bonding of machinery control panels

[telectrix]

you're bang on there, paul. most H&S jobsworths are more concerned with harrassing workers who don't wear a hard hat while on the bog than getting to grips with real safety issues. till something drastic occurs, then they run round with their clipboards like headless chickens.

 

[trev]

Wasn't the term electrocuted brought in after the invention of the electric chair to describe execution by electricity? Off topic a good way I know guys, it just got me thinking.

 

[trev]

Actually guys, ignore that last post from me. It's far too trivial for this thread

 

[dasrik]

Sorry for getting the terminology wrong, every day is a school day as they say!
I have to be careful what i say on a public forum so the specifics will be a bit vague.
Paul you would be right when you say "almost household name" it will be reportable under RIDDOR and i am sure an investigation will ensue and hopefully it will lead to the company actually adopting a safer working practices model rather than just talking about it!

It is annoying that something like this has to happen before they listen or take any action.
The piece of equipment isn't CE marked and the panel was an "in house" creation by someone who is not competent and
i doubt has formal qualifications, but the company has thrown a multi-meter at him and now calls him an Electrical Engineer
which makes a mockery of the years college and apprenticeship the rest of us have completed. All of the other engineers
are unhappy that this person is allowed to operate in an unsafe manor and it has been brought up before on several occasions
yet nothing is done!

As i mentioned before we have no access to 602040 - are there any courses on these regs like there are for the regs?

 

[ian.settle1]

What ever the outcome it still should be reported under RIDDOR for those who don't know what in means

Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences

which from the title the later applies if he has had an electric shock.

 

[netblindpaul]

dasrik,
There are not many courses on 60204, you may find related courses at private training providers & equipment manufacturers.

I would not mind betting that I have been in one of your companies plants at one time or another.
There are sections of statute law with regard to competence, and selection of competent contractors, along with criminal and case law to back these up.
If I were your employers H&S advisor, I would be thinking about putting a case together to defend a HSE prosecution, because that is where this should be going IMHO.

 

[netblindpaul]

ian,
He was also injured and ended up in hospital so that section applies too.

If HSE twig and send an electrical controls engineer in there there could be trouble!!!

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve been forced in to control modifications I didn’t agree with. But look at it this way, “make the changes or find a new job”, what do you do?

I came close to killing 4 people before I got the veto on control modifications that I felt would be unsafe.

Management hold the whip hand, production is everything! Safety? What’s that?

 

[Specialist]

. "I haven't touched the machine although it has been modified"

Hi Dasrik: Just wondering, do you mean modified before the accident or since ?

 

[netblindpaul]

Nice call Specialist!
If the machine has been changed since the accident and there is an investigation then it could mean a tempering with evidence case.
This would depend on the exact situation, how the IP was taken off site and several other small details.
Were the HSE & the Police informed immediately?
The severity of the injuries would dictate that, was the IP admitted via A&E, taken via ambulance etc.?
If they attended A&E then the hospital will inform the Police & HSE as a matter of course.

 

[Specialist]

Hi Paul: I'm hoping Dasrik will come back & fill us in on the rest of the story, would also be nice to get an update on the Guy that got injured.
Unfortunately there seem to be a lot more Electrical "Accidents" in Industry than anyone ever gets to hear about or more to the point in a lot of cases nothing ever gets reported.

 

[Inteificio]

Inteificio,
You must be minted then, because 7671 is one of the cheapest standards on a £ per page level & most people seem to moan about this.
60204-1 is currently £224.00.
The pdf is only 130 pages!
Check the value on 7671 now!

I simplify things as on a forum. My statement should have read... I will pester the F$%^ out of the management until they buy me the dam PDF. =-)

 

[Inteificio]

Regarding value, however cheap bs7671 is, if it does not cover the standards I need then it is not good value.

I do like my BS7671, but am convinced that I am the only one who reads it sometimes. The amount of **** I get for expecting a circuit I am working on to be compliant is ridiculous. One of the supply circuits testing last week has a D63 breaker on it. To be compliant it wants a b40, I got shot down when I brought it up, so wrote out the maths clearly (needs to be in crayon for my manager to follow), still got shot down. He 'cites' experience is more important that correct rating.

Well due to pressure I signed off the circuit.... with his name ;-)

 

[Specialist]

Well due to pressure I signed off the circuit.... with his name ;-)[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a typical manager.

 

[dasrik]

Specialist - The panel was modified after the accident (i don't know how much) but i'm pretty sure
it shoudn't of been touched at all, now the panel has been removed and the unit has been returned
to its original state which was pneumatic controls.

I don't know too much about the injury's the guy has but he is still in hospital and probably will be
for a while, with dislocations and fractures to at least one arm. Apparently he will need 2 operations to
re-set the dislocations. As far as im aware this was just from the shock!

i have been pestering for BS 60204 but still not seen it, i am now refusing to work on any panel until
i can be sure of the regs and have locked off a machine due to inadequate earthing. The annoying thing is
someone will probably of put it back in service over the weekend.