Cable Routing help required.

[Richlizard]

Hi all.

This is my first post for advice, so please take it easy on me. I am a recently qualified electrician on a completely new career change and have soon realised that qualifications mean nothing at all compared to the experience that no doubt you guys have built up over the years.

I am presented with a perfect opportunity as my friend has bought a house where the wiring leaves a lot to be desired. Another friend is dealing with the larger issues like changing the fuse board to a new consumer unit and I have taken on the role of what should be a simpler job of new light fittings and moving sockets around, etc.

I only had a quick 20 minutes to look around, but this is what I observed.

They currently have no light switch cables buried into the wall and sockets are a mixture of little mini double sockets and some so big you could house a hamster inside. Most rooms have spurs and homemade extensions made to look like it is part of the ring, but obviously not. So a lot of work to be carried out.

The first room they want done in a hurry is their lounge which has presented me with my first issue which I hope you can help with.

One side of the chimney breast they have this tiny double socket which they want moved to the other side of the chimney breast. This is on an external side wall...

I don't know how the cable was routed, but as you can see there is a 'spur' cable running to the other side of the chimney breast. I doubt very much it was legit or safe how it is routed or even how it is wired direct into the socket, but on the other side of the chimney breast was this giant great ugly lump that I assume is just some kind of glorified extension lead??

Obviously that lump will be removed from the current socket and they want two double sockets in this area to replace it. So I want to extend the ring from one side to the other. I thought it was obvious that all I needed to do was go to the floorboards above and run it around the chimney breast beneath the floorboards and chase it back down the other side. When I went upstairs, facing the same external wall, I found that the right hand side of the breast was in a bedroom as shown here...

When I got the floorboard up, I was expecting to see the two cable disappearing down through a hole and chased into the wall...

But they seemed to go through a beam, almost as if going outside but obviously not. So I am struggling a little to see how I will get them up and out... or even confirm where they are going. They seem to be in the correct place, but can only see them aiming to the external wall through this beam. I would assume the hole was drilled into this beam and the cabling pushed through and down into the channel in the wall. I don't suppose this is an issue. If I can't pull them back out again (if needed), I would just cut them off as they don't want this socket any more. It is not an issue to channel out the wall as obviously the plaster will be in at some stage.

My real problem arrives next. The left hand side of the chimney breast upstairs is in the bathroom next door... somewhere!

As you can see, the left hand side of the chimney breast and the cavity I was expecting to see so I could run the cables down the external wall is not there. It is all filled in and tiled. The floor is also tiled.

So I am at a bit of a loss how to get the cable from one side of the chimney breast to the other.
There are no other sockets from that side of the room to run from. Obviously I don't want to run cabling across or through the chimney breast. The floor is concrete (wood effect vinyl) and I was considering channelling out along the floor, but not sure of the pros and cons of that.

So there you go.

Sorry it is a little long-winded but I am hoping someone has had this exact scenario and there is a simple solution.

I very much appreciate your help and any suggestions.

 

[Richlizard]

Is RCD protection currently in place for this circuit before the CU is swapped ?

No! If I had access to the property, I would love to show what is in place. Apparently it is one of those old coin operated things. Definitely no RCD in place.

 

[Pete999]

I'm not sneering, or ridiculing you mate, just saying like it is.

Speak to your Mate, agree to do a rewire it will make the replacement of the CU easier for him, both of you get stuck in to do the rewire, if he has more experience then his ideas shou

I may have made the whole thing sound worse than it is.

There are probably only half a dozen sockets that need replacing with new flush ones. Literally just replacements, but put the cables into the wall where necessary.

It is just this one room that is giving me a headache with trying to get the socket from one side to another.

As for 'I may need to learn how to get cables into floors etc...' that is my whole reason for coming to this forum lol

 

[Richlizard]

Thanks Pete. I am ok with floorboards and had to cut loads just a couple of days ago 'cos the new owners of a house being smashed around had put every possession they owned in the room I had to work in.

The issue I have - and what the other poster was alluding to - was getting through the floor the floorboards are not accessible. As in the image I put up in the bathroom.

 

[ipf]

Blimey Pete! Something tells me he's trying to get down the downstairs wall underneath that tiling in the bathroom not looking for a lesson in taking up floorboards.

If the position required to get down the wall is below that tiled floor and the only way to get a route would be through the said tiling, it looks like a bit of 'boxing in' behind the toilet and going through the floor and ceiling in said position would be the answer.

Is that RFC wiring in decent nick and does it test ok? If so, it could probably be re used.

 

[buzzlightyear]

the boys are write strip and rip ,by the time you rip the laminate flooring and the original floor board, if not I bet you wish you had.
looking at the picture with under floor boards is It a original ring .
did your mate test to see if it a ring.r1&r2
you say you mate got 30years under his belt and now saying get a more experienced spark in.

 

[Richlizard]

the boys are write strip and rip ,by the time you rip the laminate flooring and the original floor board, if not I bet you wish you had.
looking at the picture with under floor boards is It a original ring .
did your mate test to see if it a ring.r1&r2
you say you mate got 30years under his belt and now saying get a more experienced spark in.

I will try to explain better. My mate has said yes he will do the consumer unit. That is it. He has seen or tested nothing at all. I had 20 minutes max to look around where much of that was to disconnect an outside light that had already been sold on Ebay and disconnect a spur which they had been literally pulled off a wall and had it just hanging loose in a corner - still connected!

My experienced mate is now out of action until end of January which I mentioned in a previous post. As there seems to be some doubt as to whether I should even change a single socket, I suggested a more experienced electrician look at it - more experienced than ME!

Hope that explains it.

 

[Octopus]

The words that spring to mind are "can", "of" and "worms"

I would be VERY careful touching that lot - yeah, move a few sockets but how do you know they aren't spurs off spurs etc?

And as for introducing RCD's - that could be a disaster too.

Your mate needs to do a thorough EICR........... simples

 

[westward10]

From your picture where the cables pass through the joist they almost definitely drop down to a chase. Take the "tiny" socket off and see if there is play on them, there maybe if they are in capping. There is no reason why you couldn't pull them back and divert them to the other side using suitable jointing methods and a bit of fishing through the joist on the other side of the breast, these things can be done with some perseverance. Double check wall alignment as what you see downstairs isn't always mirrored upstairs. Just take a step back and consider your options.

 

[Richlizard]

The words that spring to mind are "can", "of" and "worms"

I would be VERY careful touching that lot - yeah, move a few sockets but how do you know they aren't spurs off spurs etc?

And as for introducing RCD's - that could be a disaster too.

Your mate needs to do a thorough EICR........... simples

I am new but know how to check for spurs off spurs.

But agree with your sentiments of possibly a can of worms.

 

[Richlizard]

From your picture where the cables pass through the joist they almost definitely drop down to a chase. Take the "tiny" socket off and see if there is play on them, there maybe if they are in capping. There is no reason why you couldn't pull them back and divert them to the other side using suitable jointing methods and a bit of fishing through the joist on the other side of the breast, these things can be done with some perseverance. Double check wall alignment as what you see downstairs isn't always mirrored upstairs. Just take a step back and consider your options.

Thanks. Are you saying to try to run the cable along the joist? Which I would assume passes through the chimney breast? Won't this be a heat hazard if within the chimney breast, albeit behind a joist?

But even if I manage that... there is no 'other side' from upstairs. Take a look at the bathroom image.

I may be misreading you here.

 

[The Ghost]

Well you will have to route your cables in the hallway then.

 

[Richlizard]

Well you will have to route your cables in the hallway then.

Sometimes the simplest option are the most obvious once pointed out

This is where my own inexperience shines through. So bring it down from upstairs hallway and chase into downstairs hallway at height? Then drill through into lounge at height and chase along and down to the corner? Obviously I can't go across in the void as I can't get through the bathroom tiling.

 

[The Ghost]

I think youre beginning to think. Of course it does depend on what way the joist run sometimes miraculously you can rod a cable through. I would be careful about where you locate the socket as it can be a pain trying to plug things in where that one is now.But at regs height it will be better. Depends where they are going to put equipment. But if they want to sell later then both alcoves will benefit. And usually there is a lot of sockets needed due to the plethora of equipment people want to plug in. Draw a plan of the whole ground floor and where sockets are needed then join the dots with your cable and work out the route.

 

[Andy78]

You could of course just chase within the room using permitted zones.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I hope he got l/b insurance of this job, Working on his mates place