Campaign for an electrician's licence scheme...Please Read...

[maddfridge]

hi everyone

the whole lot should be under the JIB simple no one else no niceic eca etc simple jib should be like gas safe!

the trade bodies then could represent the electricians

Part P should be scrapped period and all the two week electricians should be tested under the elctrotechnical assessment scheme

Diy stores should be stopped from selling sockets etc for diy use

ah a song comes to mind if i ruled the world everyday would be last day of pat testing lol

 

[m25maintenance]

wat a load of kak. it will never happen, this is england. nobody checking until sum poor sole dies.iv called 20 people in the london area advertising as sparks and i said i need a spark but will need 2 c papers b4 job starts, only 2 of them called back, typical advert reads. plumber electrician handyman in other words unqualified idiot

 

[LukeD]

In my opinion you can have new schemes, licenses, cards etc every year if you so wish. None of them will ever mean a single thing until they are POLICED, and reports of dodgy/un-licensed work are followed up and PUNISHED.

Bang on ! THis is the only way.

 

[Big n Daft]

Just found this thread really good.

Haven't read all the threads but here are my thoughts.

Most dangerous works I have seen are from kitchen fitters, plumbers and diy'ers. Most sparks works are generally acceptable. I don't think other trades should be allowed to do a sparkies work and I think only electricians should be allowed to buy electrical materials from a wholesalers, etc.

I have just had a look at the Licencing web site but isn't this what the JIB should be for. I mean how many things do we need, the IEE, HSE, TRUSTMARK, ELECSA, ECA, NICEIC, NAPIT, PARTP, JIB, LABC, c'mon Mr Cameron, this one's ripe for some streamlining.

On the money.
The problem is the dinosaur spark. You all know one, lots of knowledge with a C+G pt 1+2 and is still 15th edition. His cv shows that he has worked all over and on everything. He looks at his trade, see's the 4 week spark and doesnt like it.
These men have so much to pass on but are treated like lepers. A single body, with a sympathetic view and willingness to recognise the acheivements, should help them get up to date via assessments and grants for 17th courses. Not try to extract as much cash as possible and alienate them.
Most of the time an experienced spark works to the regs without even knowing, its in the blood.
It is what the JIB is for, but its got no teeth and is part of the rip the trades off cartel. I have got a 5yr JIB apprenticship and was not considered for a job because I was told an NVQ was the qualification. In the real world a JIB card is useless outside a JIB firm.

 

[Bob D Nero]

Believe it or I live Spain and they have a licensing system here.
It's a three tier system, Professional theory qualification, Practical qualifiaction and a certificate of authorisation.
All three are linked to you ID number which is also your tax number, you cant get a cert of authorisation without being actively self-employed and paying social security and making tax and vat declarations and also having a valid public liability. The whole lot is then registered and monitored through the local ministry of industry. Stops a lot of cowboys now. Ant the regs here are just as tight as the 17th.

 

[cantabrian9]

WELL, i dunno which bit of spain you are in,but here in the backwoods of Almeria province you dont need no savvy to be a spark and there is not much in the way of regs!! polarity is a dirty word,testing is even dirtier!!!! i could go on but i am getting away from the original thread,---as Big n Daft mentioned (well done!!) i am one of those dinosaurs,but i will not pay out anymore money for another ticket (either 17th OR safety!!) for some UNQUALIFIED moron in a office making money from US, these office wallahs and the like couldn´t even boil a kettle if it weren´t for us

 

[mayfair]

Regs for Spain here in Alicante are quite stringent, tests are done as in 17th, ITC BT 25 is the domestic side and BT28 more for public buildings with various numbers in between All tox free cable in Public buildings and yes they do check !!! All CU are identified plus warning stickers plus much much more.

WELL, i dunno which bit of spain you are in,but here in the backwoods of Almeria province you dont need no savvy to be a spark and there is not much in the way of regs!! polarity is a dirty word,testing is even dirtier!!!! i could go on but i am getting away from the original thread,---as Big n Daft mentioned (well done!!) i am one of those dinosaurs,but i will not pay out anymore money for another ticket (either 17th OR safety!!) for some UNQUALIFIED moron in a office making money from US, these office wallahs and the like couldn´t even boil a kettle if it weren´t for us

 

[Bob D Nero]

WELL, i dunno which bit of spain you are in,but here in the backwoods of Almeria province you dont need no savvy to be a spark and there is not much in the way of regs!! polarity is a dirty word,testing is even dirtier!!!! i could go on but i am getting away from the original thread,---as Big n Daft mentioned (well done!!) i am one of those dinosaurs,but i will not pay out anymore money for another ticket (either 17th OR safety!!) for some UNQUALIFIED moron in a office making money from US, these office wallahs and the like couldn´t even boil a kettle if it weren´t for us

In Menorca which is incredibly backwards in alot of respects however with electrics, gas, plumbling and aircon theyve tightened right up in the last couple of years.

And to go back on topic if I have to pay to be liscened in th UK so be it. I''ve got no problem with a liscencing system.

 

[trev]

Would it not be better to start a petition on the Prime Minister's website. 100,000 signatures and they have to debate it in parliament. I'll volunteer to start it if no one has already

 

[Zeno]

Thanks Tvev1 for pointing me to this thread.

A licensing Scheme would be a good idea, one brand/name like Gas Safe, and several Schemes, I would not trust any of the Schemes to run a single scheme dictatorship, the costs would go through the roof.


The Propaganda from the Schemes and DCLG (Government) is, that a Licensing Scheme does not work in Australia and NZ and that it is a restrictive practise, because the public cannot do anything. I think that the public should be able to do a restricted set of work as they do now.


The Schemes don't want it because they like the QS system, and the thought of a Individual Licensing System to enable Competence on the Doorstep for the public, is a Major threat to their membership numbers and profits.

We will never get anywhere until Our Trade is speaking to Politicians that make the decisions, because one thing for sure is that Parliamentary Under Secretary of State Andrew Stunell MP, Minister for Part P, will not have been told what his own department and the Schemes are up to.


At the moment the Schemes speak on behalf of Our Trade to DCLG, do you really think that they state the full facts.


Has everyone seen what their Schemes have stated to DCLG for the new Part P Mk2 ? Yeah Right.


Its not about Competence, its about Money.

 

[darking]

cynical but sadly, true

 

[matt v]

I have dipped in and out of these posts so excuse me if I am repeating anyone. These schemes would be great, but until sales of electrical installation materials are restricted you will never be able to change anything, its one thing for a consumer to choose some lights but when they can buy consumer units, armoured cable etc how will you stop unlicensed installs in private dwellings?
Touching on another topic, I spent 15 years in landscape design and build (self employed) and decided to change tac and specialise in garden lighting. Did the course got the quals, (2330, 17th, part p)paid the money. The things I have seen from time served sparks in this context has suprised me, a lack of understanding of install and product mainly. Having specced lighting schemes with a qualified spark I decided to do it myself, and having done some house bashing with him have found my building skills and business skills have seen me in good stead. There is a placce for re education, and always a place for continued education.
I would still want to be part of the scheme tho!

 

[grantr37]

If there was to be a license system for electricians all that would happen is that many many thousands of electricians would be denied membership, or have it removed because a pen-pusher without any knowledge or understanding felt like it,and any electrician that is unfortunate enough to be put on the "unsavory individuals list" aka "do not employ list" which we can assume still exist and operate for most trades would get a red letter in the post and be banned and banished.......a lot of things are tied together in different ways.....just like when you annoy a friend or relative of a certain type of official person clad in black and yellow clothing...and your transport gets added to "of interest" then you start getting pulled over all over the country....work licenses removed= less competition=more money to be made by less people= big business gets involved through hook or crook in the process of administering and issuing of licenses

 

[TPES]

Would it not be better to start a petition on the Prime Minister's website. 100,000 signatures and they have to debate it in parliament. I'll volunteer to start it if no one has already

Good idea, I've signed a few of these petitions in the hope of making a difference to this sad state of a country

 

[TPES]

Is this the one?

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5485