Campaign for an electrician's licence scheme...Please Read...

[grantr37]

would anybody here like to be denied work because they didn't have a license? it would be like having your driving license taken away.....imagine having your work license taken away for no good and fair reason....whats that? I have to go for an £800 medical for the insurance company before they will cover me...because they can make me do that.... and I need to keep it continuous by law.....whats that? my bad back makes my insurance more expensive.....what five thousand.....for one year......oh no they will take away my sparks license if my insurance runs out....

just think about all the good bar people who had to stop working in bars and pubs due to the individual licenses that came in.....a lot of money to do the course.....very expensive and few pubs willing to pay...so have to part with cash themselves.....got a speeding fine....maybe a nuisance noise visit when you were an 18 year old student playing loud music....or what was that? the person at the council doesn't like your sister....so they motion to deny approval....oh well too bad there's lots of other people out there so they are quite happy to ignore your appeal...and in any case they feel like they are too busy to bother...

 

[trev]

Grant can we assume from your post that you're happy with the status quo?
Where good sparks are missing out on work because they are not signed up to a scam provider despite having a list of qualifications as long as your arm.
Where guys who can go out and work on massive voltages are unable to work in their own homes legally for the same reason, Where the cowboys are propspering because they don't adhere to the rules and the system allows them to get away with it. And the only ones profitting out of the whole sorry mess are the scam providers since they make their fees whether they let you join their gang or not

 

[Specialist]

Seriously doubt that a licence for Electricians will stop the Cowboys or Joe blogs down the road from doing Electrical work. No matter what license you have there will still be Cowboys doing work, they have Licensed Electricians in America & it sure has'nt stopped the butchers doing Electrics. Not only that but how is this Licence going to work to stop the Qualified Cowboy ? Don't know about you but i've seen many bad / dangerous jobs carried out by fully qualified Electricians, how is any Licence going to stop them ?.

 

[darking]

So if there was a single body, nationally recognised, that made a thorough check on any applicants qualifications and competence, charged a low fee for the registration and re-registration of electricians, say every three years, who issued a card used as photo id as proof of accreditation surely would be cheap to run and administer fairly?

But wait, we have all that in place already, a JIB card! All we need to petition for is for that to become statutory, and the job is done and we have the electricity at work act that can enforce it

 

[TPES]

would anybody here like to be denied work because they didn't have a license?...

I'm all for it..

If I wanted to be an electrician then I would do all it took to get the licence if this was the career I so badly wanted.

If I was already an electrician then I would take what ever courses I needed to take to be issued with a licence..

If they bring this licence out and your an electrician that would be worried about loosing work because you didn't have a licence then do what is required to gain your licence, simple. if your good at what you do have the knowledge and high standards of work then you will have no worries.

Who is worried about this and why?

 

[Specialist]

So if there was a single body, nationally recognised, that made a thorough check on any applicants qualifications and competence, charged a low fee for the registration and re-registration of electricians, say every three years, who issued a card used as photo id as proof of accreditation surely would be cheap to run and administer fairly?

But wait, we have all that in place already, a JIB card! All we need to petition for is for that to become statutory, and the job is done and we have the electricity at work act that can enforce it

OK but does the JIB card & their checks on peoples qualifications / competence stop them going out & doing shoddy / dangerous work after they've got it ?: NO the same as Part P has'nt stopped the Cowboys in the domestic side, if anything there are more of them. NIC check peoples work etc but does that stop a lot of NIC registered contractors doing shoddy work ? NO of course it does'nt, so why do people think that a Licence is going to do any better.

 

[Arnold Layne]

Darking, I assume by JIB card that what you are actually referring to is the ECS ( Electrotechnical Scheme card) card which is affiliated to the CSCS. This is a scheme which was introduced to ensure Health and Safely, which is absolutely necessary. However whilst they can check paperwork qualifications, which is good, I don't see how it checks competence. It is not an independent scheme, as others have called for. It is administered by the ECA

 

[alarm man]

a licence wouldnt work,why issue one and no doubt have to pay for it when the entry into it is a quick course to get it,will make things worse imo,like darking says we have a sort of one anyway in the jib,ive said it before those who have been in the trade for years and have no jib card or the latest quals should be given a test to prove their competence and issued with a jib electrcian card and paid that rate as that will be the standard,the industry does need to be tightened its the quick course diet spark thats the biggest threat,the companies also need to get the apprenticeship scheme back on course,real training over real time regardless of age,

 

[darking]

As I Said the EAWR cover competency

Reg 16. Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury

No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work

We have legislation we need to petition to have it enforced with prosecution for any infringement

 

[imago]

I'm all for it..

If I wanted to be an electrician then I would do all it took to get the licence if this was the career I so badly wanted.

If I was already an electrician then I would take what ever courses I needed to take to be issued with a licence..

If they bring this licence out and your an electrician that would be worried about loosing work because you didn't have a licence then do what is required to gain your licence, simple. if your good at what you do have the knowledge and high standards of work then you will have no worries.

Which is what we have now, so there's no need for a campaign or a license.

Darking has it spot on IMHO. The system is already in place, as is the legislation, standards and inspectors. The part that's sadly lacking is any meaningfull enforcement.

Campaigning for yet another level and type of beaurocracy is madness.

 

[dingledong]

if there was a tradesman court where the cowboys bodgers and other people had to go to if a complaint was made and proven then it would stop some of the cowboys but not all

 

[RexT]

Hi dingledong,

It seems that the current law is not being enforced as the guys who are qualified, notifying the work correctly, being members of the approved body etc and trying to make an honest living are being undercut by guys who are only in it for a 'quick buck'. It is very serious a lots of peoples lives are being put at risk by poor installation practice by the ones who do not really know the trade.

Hopefully it will get sorted out.

Best wishes

Rex

 

[UNG]

just think about all the good bar people who had to stop working in bars and pubs due to the individual licenses that came in.....a lot of money to do the course.....very expensive and few pubs willing to pay...so have to part with cash themselves

Not all bar staff have to hold a Personal Licence to serve alcohol, although you do need one to become a premises licensee so you picked a bad example there

I'm all for it..

If I wanted to be an electrician then I would do all it took to get the licence if this was the career I so badly wanted.

If I was already an electrician then I would take what ever courses I needed to take to be issued with a licence..

If they bring this licence out and your an electrician that would be worried about loosing work because you didn't have a licence then do what is required to gain your licence, simple. if your good at what you do have the knowledge and high standards of work then you will have no worries.

Who is worried about this and why?

Maybe this would put the quick training providers under more scrutiny and start raising the standards to what they were

OK but does the JIB card & their checks on peoples qualifications / competence stop them going out & doing shoddy / dangerous work after they've got it ?: NO the same as Part P has'nt stopped the Cowboys in the domestic side, if anything there are more of them. NIC check peoples work etc but does that stop a lot of NIC registered contractors doing shoddy work ? NO of course it does'nt, so why do people think that a Licence is going to do any better.

In my opinion over the years the standard of training has slipped and so the assessment standards have been lowered in order for the assessment bodies to remain viable

the companies also need to get the apprenticeship scheme back on course,real training over real time regardless of age,

This is what is needed to improve the standards and image of the electrical industry

As I Said the EAWR cover competency

Reg 16. Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury

No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work

We have legislation we need to petition to have it enforced with prosecution for any infringement

I don't see how the Electricity At Work Act could be used to prevent poor installation work that may not necessarily cause danger or injury

if there was a tradesman court where the cowboys bodgers and other people had to go to if a complaint was made and proven then it would stop some of the cowboys but not all

It wouldn't they would do what most criminals do now and not turn up to face the music


Whatever method is used even showing a licence to buy electrical equipment it would probably just create a black market for electrical equipment somewhere

 

[darking]

Well for shoddy but not dangerous work, the Trading Act could be applied as the product (their work) would not be fit for purpose. We have the legislation, we need to have it applied vigorously and if we petition government EVERY time that there is an infringement causing death or damage they will have to act. You know where your local Lib dem or conservative MP lives. Email, write, go to their office and bang the drum

If we don't who will?

 

[billynoband]

It's already too complicated, a licence would turn it into something akin to the Freemasons to get into which it is not far from anyway, don't encourage the regulatory bodies.
Speaking as someone who has been away from the trade for 12 years as a carer I stand aside, watch and tut.
I dismay at the number of training courses available. I applied for a job as NVQ electrical assesor and the college did'nt even recognise my g&g 236, I think they knew what my 2381 was (this was in 2006) but then asked me if I had a level 3 course which is what 2381 is.
The 16 and 17th additions are a good idea regards testing. If they had kept c&g 236 part 1 and 2, added one compulsory testing part for work then you would'nt have all this confusion and spend time policing the trade instead of creating more money grabbing training courses. The brits stand back and take it.
The recent g&g courses are more of the same that we did 20 years ago and the testing is nothing new either. We used to test to similar standards back then with the 15th edition. Surprisingly in the 80s you could buy a circuit breakers and elcb's.
Only thing that has really changed is the training courses have been extended by c&g and the regulation enforcers, split up, made longer and most important of all the cost has rocketed and training has been made into a multi-million pound business that cannot now shrink as there is now money to be printed and huge director wages shared. This is a closed shop instead of a electricians course for people that have the aptitude to do the job and the brits stand back and take it.
They will only make it more expensive to keep your training up to date. Expect a 18th edition soon then the 19th soon after that . Then dna swabs, fingerprint and regular drug testing for all licence holders and the British will open their wallets and say here you are c&g/nvq,regulation bodies and IEE (I know there called something else now), whatever you say. Would'nt happen in the rest of europe.