Campaign for an electrician's licence scheme...Please Read...

[jcarlie]

I agree with the opinion that part p is failing miserably.The problem i think is that the industry is not policed at all.Generally members of the public know that to work on gas you have to be Corgi registered or gas safe as it is now,the majority also know what the consequences are if someone works on your gas that isnt registered.Here is where part p fails,the majority dont have a clue that yor property should be tested every 10 years or every time there is a change in occupancy,on this point it should be made compulsary that properties are tested and inspected before you can even put it on the market. They dont have a clue that every job that is carried out,no matter how trivial,needs testing and certifying.The general public need educating and some form of statutory legislation covering the industry needs putting in place,if that means a licence then im all for it,if that means a total re-hash of part p then im all for that as well because for one thing,part p isnt working like it is supposed to do.The DIY horrors i have seen in the past is unbelievable and not just in domestic properties but commercial as well.The literature needs to change from it being acceptable for a "competent" person to work on electricity to "Qualified,registered Electrician" is the only person allowed to carry out any electrical work whatsoever.Just my opinion.When properties are tested why not supply a drawing thats is signed and dated,the next time it is inspected and tested anything that has been installed that is not on the original drawing will need certificates to show they was installed by a Registered electrician,you would only need to make the drawing out once,or even provide a drawing everytime a propert is rewired.I know that commercial and industrial have these drawings usually but domestic properties dont and that is where the biggest problems with cowboys lie.

 

[elektrisien]

If you want to know the answer, try reading my web site and visit the links that will take you to other sites that will also answer the questions.
1 - It's a License to Practice (no license, no job)
2 - It's a License to Trade (no license, not work)
The scheme will need to have the backing of legislation, so that it can be enforced effectively. It will need to be able to prosecute non license holders that carry out electrical work illegally.

Part P has legislation to give it teeth, but relies on Building Control to police it and they have no resource, so action is sporadic.
NICEIC, Elecsa etc etc have no powers to act and in the main do not act when complaints are made. They value your annual fees above anything. Don’t kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
ESC are an advisory body, they have no interest in actual enforcement
JIB is the ECA, they issue a card that states your qualifications etc, it has nothing to do with enforcement
So out of all of these, it come down to Part P and Building Control.
What about the rest of the industry?, commercial, industrial, agriculture etc.
I assume from your posts that you are a one man business focused on the domestic market ?
I’m sorry but your augments demonstrate a serious lack of knowledge of our industry and the various bodies associated with it. (Your technical knowledge is not being questioned)
Take a look at the ECA and you will see, they actually own or control many things that you probably think are independent.
The ESC is ECA & NICEIC controlled.
Did you know that the ECA help fund Unite the Union.
Someone earlier stated that the NICEIC were a charity, which is no longer true.
Can we all do some home work and get our facts right before posting inaccurate information.
They say ignorance is bliss

Thanks for your extensive reply, I appreciate it.
But like the other posts say, for it to work, you will have to set up the infrastructure to police it.
Secondly, and probably the most diffecult , you will have to educate the public.
Unfortunetly, I am not a qulified electrician with my own business, if only.
But I am an adult trainee, who did evening classes for 3 years at a normal college. I know how diffecult it is, even now to get in the industry, who is going to give me an opportunity for instance to do my NVQ3 ?
If you create even more barriers to entry, how are guys like me going to get in ??
Tell me how your register will benefit me, and I will support you.

 

[Lec]

Elektrisian, you asked, so here we go.
Both of your first points are key parts of introducing a licensing scheme and would be part of the process of setting the scheme up. It would not work without them.
Re your personal situation.
I have employed and paid for the training of an adult trainee, with no funding from JTL or any other training organisation, so I am familiar with your plight.
There was some funding available from JTL for employers wanting to train adults, I don’t know if it is still available or if you would qualify. I suggest you contact the local JTL guy through your local JTL approved training centre. You could also try Summit Skills. If you get stuck, I will try to help.
There are always employers that are willing to employ & train capable people, if they show practical ability, enthusiasm and technical understanding of the trade. Employers want funding to help them train adults, you have a number of advantages over school leavers, one being maturity and a understanding of what the real world is about.
How would the licence help people like you?
It would get rid of the cowboys across all sectors, Domestic, Industrial, Commercials etc. This would increase demand for the real electricians as they would be the only ones trading under a license. This would increase the need for training of electricians to fill the skills gap and would inevitably lead to the availability of funding to train adults as well as school leavers. Greater demand for qualified electricians means greater opportunity of finding employment for people like you that need experience for the NVQ. By the way NVQs are being replaced with QCFs, but that’s another storey. Employers would also be able to charge fair rates, as there would be less people selling themselves for stupid prices, this would also enable employers to pay towards training their electricians of the future.
Yes there are and always will be employers that abuse trainees and use them as cheap labour, but you don’t have to work for them. If people refuse to work for the sharks, they will eventually go out of business or change their ways.
Stop being negative, it grinds you down and people pick up on it. Be positive about yourself and the future of the trade and opportunities will come along. It’s for you to recognise them and grab them. Why not start by helping us change the trade for the good. www.l-e-c.org.uk

 

[aptsys]

Sounds very idealistic and not very realistic to me. If people who want to pay cheap for electrical work can't get it done cheap, they're more likely to either leave it, get a mate to do it or have a go themselves.

 

[Lec]

If the world was full of people with that attitude, women would not be able to vote, kids would still be working in coal mines, apartheid would still exist in South Africa, we would never have gone into space, we would still think the world was flat, the list goes on and on.

 

[aptsys]

Women can vote???

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Hi Lec,

A few questions regards time scale etc, if you dont mind.

What time scales etc do you have in mind to try and get the next step of the ball rolling?

Is there a minimum qty of electricians you want to get their votes registered first?

Where else have you publicised this campaign?

You mentioned in one of your posts there would still be a role to play for the current scheme providers, when do you propose to contact them?

Thanks
Mark

 

[Lec]

Are you a supporter?
I think I would rather keep the scheme providers guessing at present, it's early days.
If you are a doubter take a look at this site, it will open your eyes.
www.partpsurvival.co.uk

 

[not clever]

Well I think you'd be better off setting up a campaign to get the powers that be to listen to electricians, & get them to start policing part P & to start dishing out some meaningful penalties to cowboys & home owners who flout the whole system.
Maybe even get the insurance companies on board with regard to home insurance & electrical work. Something along the lines of domestic pir every 5 years make it a law, any electrical work requires notifying & certificating so leaving a papertrail to the contractor who has undertaken the work. Put the electrical system back into the HIP's with requests for any electrical certificates to be given to solicitors during house sales.
Any of these will do more to advertise part P & use a registered sparks as opposed to a cowboy, more than the lame & half hearted advetising stratergy used by the government & scheme operators to date.

Licencing electrician will just be another stick to beat us with for more money.

 

[Lec]

Please don't be so short sighted.
Read the earlier posts and my web site.
It won't be a stick, it will help you. I've explained this so many times.
It won't cost you more money becasue you won't need to pay for what you get now and it will be run on a not for profit basis, so it won't be making profits from you.
It will address all the things you mentioned.
I think I need a FAQ page on the web site as I seem to be repeating myself almost on a daily basis.
Thank you for your contribution anyway

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Have you considered lobying the insurance borkers associations:

Association of British Insurers - ABI Home Page

British Insurance Brokers Association :: BIBA ::

After all they have a vested interest in ensuring the properties they under-write are as "low risk" as possible

 

[Jason Smith]

Hi lec,
Can you put your cards on the table please and disclose your interests in such a scheme. Do you see yourself as running such a scheme and what salary would you be requiring before all the profits go to charity ?

 

[JABellis]

Who would support the introduction of a Licence scheme for electricans, as used in Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc etc.

Well, you can.

I have heard so many electrcians say "what we need is a licensing scheme like in Australia, that would solve the problem..... But it will never happen"

Take a look at L-E-C.org.uk - The Licensed Electricians Campaign

If the vast majority of electricians supported this campaign, the government wiould have to listen and act.

Comments please.

I spoke to a plumber the other day who has just been on acourse for his Part"P" which entitles him to wire lighting type B+C and power to type"C",4 Days,and if he wanted to be able to wire a house he needed to pay extra and do an extra day???????????????
How quick is that!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Bellis

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Are you a supporter?
I think I would rather keep the scheme providers guessing at present, it's early days.
If you are a doubter take a look at this site, it will open your eyes.
www.partpsurvival.co.uk

I don't object to your license, neither do I support something that seems as if it's still wishful thinking.

All I and many others probably want to know, is your next steps and time scales.

You said the scheme providers will still have a roll to play, get them involved, speed things up and get it in place.

I am sure if you show clear actions and time scales you would get more backing?

 

[Lec]

Hi lec,
Can you put your cards on the table please and disclose your interests in such a scheme. Do you see yourself as running such a scheme and what salary would you be requiring before all the profits go to charity ?

Hi Jason,
First of all I am more than happy to put my cards on the table. Currently I have no desire to run this organisation, I have very little spare time running my own company and there are probably much more suitable people, so long as they come from within the industry. Having said this I am committed to this and will contribute as much as I can in any way I can. I am doing this not for my gain, but becasue I pasionatly believe it is needed and that electrcians should be respected as the professionals we are.

Secondly, the salary would be appropriate for the position, not excessive and all accounts would be transparent, so anyone could see where the money is spent. You obviously don't understand how a not for profit organisation works, there are no profits, the revenue collected is set at a level that allows the organisation to break even.

Hope that answers your questions.
One more for the FAQ page I guess.