Can I, Can't I?

[mattcos1972]

Morning all.

Just got a call from a chap who has recently had a new CCU fitted. However he tells me that the sparks who fitted it has had an injury and has been unable to finish off a few other minor jobs that were also on the agenda and do the final testing and certification.

I am NICEIC registered so I can sign off my own work, and as I run a Ltd. company I can sign off ant work done by any subbies or employees of my own......however I am not 2391 so technically I cannot test another man's work...........However...as this job is not yet complete, could I not take over responsibility for what's been done so far (subject to a bloody good survey of its calibre, of course - one has a reputation to uphold, you know ), finish off the small jobs that require finishing and then certify the lot?

Bear in mind I would not put my name to anything that is not 100%..... at the very least I would tell the customer that anything I wanted changing would have to be changed before I put my name to it.
I am more worried about the legality of me signing it off rather than whether or not I this guys work is up to scratch...so assuming it already is, or that I make it up to scratch...........What do you reckon?

 

[acat]

You cannot sign of someone elses work because you take responsibilty for it and you will be prosecuted for his mistakes if it came to that.

I would suggest the best way forward is a PIR you dont need to be qualified for that just use generic forms from iee website. Do an EIC remedial work only for what you have actually done combine the two and give them to the customer.


Chris

 

[just add water sparks]

Just to clarify are we saying in general you cannot sign off anyone elses work OR
because mattcos does not hold a 2391 cert he cannot do it.

 

[Sintra]

In general you can not sign off another parties work.

Only way is to issue PIR as stated.

 

[Spudnik]

No you cant sign off someone else's work, regardless of whether you have 2391 or not.

However, it is your call if you do on this occasion, especially if you can see new cable runs etc if there are any.

 

[Steve D]

If you're not able to inspect & test somebody elses work, then why is there a 3 signature Elec Inst Certificate for design, construction and inspect & test ?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Why on earth would you want to take legal responsibility for someone else's work

 

[mattcos1972]

Its quite a can of worms, isnt it?

I cant do a PIR though, without 2391, can I? Not one that's actually worth anything anyway.

I am happy to do a full test and inspection on the works done, and would NEVER sign anything off unless I had thoroughly checked it first.....but we have a situation here where the original sparky for whatever reason cannot finish the job....surely I wouldn't have to pull the lot out and start again if I could inspect test and inspect the lot and ascertain that all was well.
I believe its just a CCU change and he's not touched the wiring anywhere so its not like I would have to have all the boards up and chase any walls.
I'll have a clearer idea after I visit the customer tomorrow.

Matt

 

[acat]

If you're not able to inspect & test somebody elses work, then why is there a 3 signature Elec Inst Certificate for design, construction and inspect & test ?

The designer may never actually see the property, the constructor could be an employee and the test and inspect could be carried out by his boss who has in theory inspected the work from start to finish and able to sign. We have a lot of sparks working who do not have the 17th so the supervisor who has the 17th does it.


Chris

 

[Steve D]

I'm not saying I would ever feel comfortable doing so, but just curious why there is a 3 signature certificate if you're 'not supposed to do it'.

 

[EddieB]

When you go to replace a Consumer unit you have to fill in a domestic electrical certificate, which asks if the cables are run correctly etc etc, surely this is the same as signing off on somebody elses work, you didn't do the original instalation back in the day, or do you put this in the limitations section on the form. either way you are testing the installation and if it all tests out and all the circuits are now RCD protected, where's the problem?

 

[mattcos1972]

When you go to replace a Consumer unit you have to fill in a domestic electrical certificate, which asks if the cables are run correctly etc etc, surely this is the same as signing off on somebody elses work, you didn't do the original instalation back in the day, or do you put this in the limitations section on the form. either way you are testing the installation and if it all tests out and all the circuits are now RCD protected, where's the problem?

The problem is.....if the house burns down and my signature is on the sheet............

 

[TPES]

I was in the exact same position, I didn't have my 2391 but I issued a PIR for another contractors work that was unable to finish and issue his own EIC, this was for the LABC and it was accepted on this occasion with no problems. No one is supposed to issue a EIC for work they didint do, I wouldn't anyway. How can you issue a "installation certificate" if you don't really know about the install? It's like getting a mechanic on your street to MOT your car then going to a proper garage and saying "print me a certificate out please?"

The car could be a death trap... So they'll never do it
As could this property!

(I know this may sound extreme to some, but this is how I get my point across to customers and other sparks)

 

[mattcos1972]

I was in the exact same position, I didn't have my 2391 but I issued a PIR for another contractors work that was unable to finish and issue his own EIC, this was for the LABC and it was accepted on this occasion with no problems. No one is supposed to issue a EIC for work they didint do, I wouldn't anyway. How can you issue a "installation certificate" if you don't really know about the install? It's like getting a mechanic on your street to MOT your car then going to a proper garage and saying "print me a certificate out please?"

The car could be a death trap... So they'll never do it
As could this property!

(I know this may sound extreme to some, but this is how I get my point across to customers and other sparks)

I make you right! We have to assume the worst in a case like this. I am going to get onto NICEIC tomorrow and run it past them.

 

[Steve D]

Let us know what the NICEIC say - I reckon we all need a little enlightenment on this one.