Can you run a time lag switch and a PIR for the same set of LED lights?

[AnjP]

I have a problem. Not only am I not an electrician, but I need some help understanding what options are achievable so that I can go back to the Planning Department on our planning permission.

We are having steps built down to our front door and will be putting in 10 x 0.75Watt lights in to the left hand side retaining wall in order to light up the steps. We already have a switch in our house (in a brushed chrome switch panel) and the start of a circuit laid outside ready for the lights. The house is only 3 years old and all lights are LEDs. The Council are concerned that there may be too much light pollution (we are in a rural area) and we have NIMBY neighbours objecting to EVERYTHING and so want the lights to be on some sort of timer switch, so that they do not stay on for too long.

I am thinking that at the top of the steps (furthest from the house) we would have a PIR sensor so that visitors using the steps would activate the lights. I know that these can be set so that they keep the lights on for certain time, which can usually be adjusted on set up. That's great, but I would like to have an override switch in the house. My research shows that (correct me if I am wrong) this is possible with PIRs. My questions therefore are:

1. can we fit that override switch in to the existing 4-switch panel (the electricians on the development already left a switch in the switch panel for the external lights) or would it need to be a separate switch?

2. Would we be able to have some sort of timer on the internal switch? eg. so that when we go out, we can switch the lights on and know that after x minutes they will go off again and not just stay on until we get back, as after all, the PIR will pick us up on the way home again?

3. can you get any fittings you recommend (not the PIR) in brushed chrome?

4. Or is there some other way (that I have not envisaged) to get the lights to come on automatically at the far end of the steps and to have it go on for a set amount of time when switching them on from inside?

One option is for us to turn the lights on inside, nip outside to activate the PIR timer and then run back inside to turn the switch off inside, but I was hoping to avoid such a nonsense!

Bearing in mind my lack of technical knowledge, please keep your answers simple at this stage, so that I can guide the Council's planning department accordingly and sound like I know what I am talking about, even though I don't. If the answers are then YES, I may later seek your kind help again for a more technical way of doing it, so that I can ensure that the electrician that the developer gets in to do the job is doing it properly.

Many thanks!

AnjP

 

[Pete999]

I have a problem. Not only am I not an electrician, but I need some help understanding what options are achievable so that I can go back to the Planning Department on our planning permission.

We are having steps built down to our front door and will be putting in 10 x 0.75Watt lights in to the left hand side retaining wall in order to light up the steps. We already have a switch in our house (in a brushed chrome switch panel) and the start of a circuit laid outside ready for the lights. The house is only 3 years old and all lights are LEDs. The Council are concerned that there may be too much light pollution (we are in a rural area) and we have NIMBY neighbours objecting to EVERYTHING and so want the lights to be on some sort of timer switch, so that they do not stay on for too long.

I am thinking that at the top of the steps (furthest from the house) we would have a PIR sensor so that visitors using the steps would activate the lights. I know that these can be set so that they keep the lights on for certain time, which can usually be adjusted on set up. That's great, but I would like to have an override switch in the house. My research shows that (correct me if I am wrong) this is possible with PIRs. My questions therefore are:

1. can we fit that override switch in to the existing 4-switch panel (the electricians on the development already left a switch in the switch panel for the external lights) or would it need to be a separate switch?

2. Would we be able to have some sort of timer on the internal switch? eg. so that when we go out, we can switch the lights on and know that after x minutes they will go off again and not just stay on until we get back, as after all, the PIR will pick us up on the way home again?

3. can you get any fittings you recommend (not the PIR) in brushed chrome?

4. Or is there some other way (that I have not envisaged) to get the lights to come on automatically at the far end of the steps and to have it go on for a set amount of time when switching them on from inside?

One option is for us to turn the lights on inside, nip outside to activate the PIR timer and then run back inside to turn the switch off inside, but I was hoping to avoid such a nonsense!

Bearing in mind my lack of technical knowledge, please keep your answers simple at this stage, so that I can guide the Council's planning department accordingly and sound like I know what I am talking about, even though I don't. If the answers are then YES, I may later seek your kind help again for a more technical way of doing it, so that I can ensure that the electrician that the developer gets in to do the job is doing it properly.

Many thanks!

AnjP

Hi AnjP and welcome,

If the local council's planning department have any input, on the planning and subsequent signing off on this job, then knowing how jobsworth they are, I would imagine that they will have taken all the pros and cons of this work into consideration, and will be involved at some stage with the Electrical Contractor doing the work.
The Electrical contractor will need to provide certification at the completion of the work, not being an active Electrician any more, and the information you have provided is a little sketchy, I'm not that sure if the job will be notifiable.
The more knowledgeable members, will know the answer to this, and I'm certain someone will be along later to give more up to date advice.
Hope this helps.

 

[Spoon]

Welcome to the forum.

1. can we fit that override switch in to the existing 4-switch panel (the electricians on the development already left a switch in the switch panel for the external lights) or would it need to be a separate switch?

You can fit a time delay switch to the circuit. The existing switch in the panel will not work as you want it to.
Above answer applies to your question 2 as well.

 

[littlespark]

Tell your neighbours to P off.
They're little LED lamps to make it safe to walk up steps, not flipping 500w floodlights

 

[mhar]

Not completely sure I understand the issue. I have just fitted 3 lights controlled by 2 x pirs and with an override, the override switch could easily be changed for a time lag one if required.
This is the sort of thing that people can only really advise on when on site so that the way to adapt your existing can be assessed.
I very nearly very helpfully gave my customer an override switch with a neon indicator, stopped myself just in time!

 

[AnjP]

Thank you to you all for taking the time to reply (and making me laugh!). I would ask the electrician himself, if the developer ever got back to me to let me know who he was, but as the development is complete, except for this post-hummus job which the developer promised us they would do if planning permission was obtained, the developer is being less than helpful. Any work done now costs him (and secretly he will be hoping we don't get planning permission at all (it's listed)).

I think in total I get that we can have a PIR and a time lag on the same circuit. Thank you for your help everyone!

 

[Richard Burns]

It would probably be simpler to have two PIR sensors, one at the top of the stairs and one at the bottom then anyone moving on the stairs will turn on the lights for a period of time. I would think that the number of times you would want the lights on from inside the house when you are not going to go out would be minimal, but you could position a microwave sensor at the bottom of the stairs instead of a PIR and then when you came close to the door the lights would come on for the preset time. However this would be inconvenient if the internal route past the door is a main thoroughfare.

 

[marconi]

Might you provide a picture or drawing?

And could you say a little more about:

1. the conditions to be met at the top of the steps to switch on the LEDs automatically;

2. the conditions to be met at the bottom of the steps to switch on the lights automatically;

3. would you consider the pressing of a button at the top or bottom to activate the on/off sequence;

4. whether you want them to switch on automatically during the day;

5. are the on periods for going down and going up the steps to be the same length;

4. what 'false detections' you want to avoid ie: passers-by, dogs and cats;

5. How soon before the first step down you want the LEDs to turn on. Is it so many second before or so may millimetres before;

6. to clarify if the override is a 'one-shot' on then off or permanent on/off.