Cancellation rights trap.

[Stevesplatto]

Just got out of a small claims court. A technicality just cost me £750!
Goes like this:
I provided an estimate for remedial works left over by a previous electrician who was sacked bt the client. Dont usually take these on but his wife was 9 months prenantand they were desperate to get the bedroom completed.
Raised an estimate with a strong caveat that there may well be more works on further investigation (and there was, shocking work). Started the next day with an email acceptance.
2 1/2 days in with 1/2 a day to go the client sacks me. I raise an invoice for the work done. The client pays the bill under protest and takes out a small claims saying that under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 because I didnt give information on cancellation rights I have to refund him the money for my labour so far.
The judge very apologetically agreed on legal grounds and I have to pay the client £750 incl court costs!

Most of my work starts within 14 days and a fair proportion is within 2-3 days of agreeing the estimate. Does anyone have any wording that would satisfy the regulations for work that is cancelled after it has comenced?
Cheers

 

[Octopus]

^^ So a quote to Mrs Jones to replace 1 outside light needs this paperwork .............. total madness.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Mrs jones, get a text from me or email .

 

[buzzlightyear]

any big job estimate, and get the customer to sign .

 

[happysteve]

I was looking into this last week (slow week), took me a couple of days to get my head round it. The main issues are:

1. Only relevant to consumers (not businesses).
2. You need to tell them about their right to cancel. Failing to do so can result in the customer effectively doing you over, as per the original post.
3. The right to cancel does not apply in a couple of circumstances relevant to our trade: (a) when the customer invites you into their home to do urgent repair work, and (b) anything "made to measure."
4. If you do work within the 14 day period, (and you've told them of their right to cancel) then they can still cancel at any time, but they must pay you for (a) your time, (b) any materials you can't remove without damaging, (c) a reduction in value of items (e.g. wear and tear) that you can remove, (d) costs of returning items; all provided that you have informed them of all this at the beginning.

I used the following links for my research, they're worth a read:

• Citizen's Advice (sets out the consumer's rights, so coming at it from the consumer's perspective): Cancelling building or decorating work.
• Business companion (sets out the requirements from a business perspective): Consumer contracts: distance sales.
• Legislation.gov.uk: Model instructions for cancellation.

I've now appended information about "your right to cancel (if you're a consumer)" to my terms of business, which I email to anyone who wants more than a small amount of work doing.

But crumbs, what a headache! (And all sympathy to the original poster).

 

[Strima]

What was the reason for the customer sacking yourself and the previous spark?

 

[NDG Elecs]

I feel for you mate. Absolute scum. And to think they are bringing a child into the world. The poor little so and so. Postcrete sets really quickly by the way.......not easily shifted by dynorod etc!!
Thanks for heads up Steve. I am vaguely aware of these regs but will look into them a bit more now.

 

[Stevesplatto]

Great response thank you!
Got to bang out some work to pay this guy now.. I'm looking into an appeal but it isnt looking good. It's completely stitched up.
I'll reply in detail this evening. There's even more c**p to this!
Cheers
Steve

 

[Stevesplatto]

What a piece of s***! People like this really boil my wee. Can't you pay them £1 a week or something to really pee them off?

No, if i dont pay within 28 days it can affect my credit rating. I have to pay directly to the client .If i dont then the client takes out a CCJ which he'll win because it's a judges direction and Ill have a CCJ against me..

 

[Stevesplatto]

bar stools ,they did it to get job of nothing.

what did he sack you for ?

I was working of an estimate with the caveat that I'm likely to find more issues (like, the cowboy had used an earth of a NEST thermostat as a neutral off the heat miser for the lighting circuit.) There was an estimated 4 hours left he said 3 I said it was an estimate, he sacked me! The amount of hours worked isnt disputed.

 

[Stevesplatto]

To the O.P, were you legally represented in the small claims?

So this customer has now sacked 2 Electricians and had the last 2 1/2 days of work (and materials ?) for free.
How much did they get out of the first one I wonder?

He tried to withold £150 of the 1st one. (to be fair he was a complete cowboy, shocking work) the guy didnt produce any invoices, no paperwork at all. The guy threatened him over the phone. the client looked him up and found he was a convicted football hooligan so the client paid up!

 

[Stevesplatto]

Know a plumber in Bristol who had a customer do something very similar, thought he was clever taking plumber to court and getting the money paid back under similar daft laws as above, sacked him after the boiler and heating system was in and certified and about to start the ensuite shower rooms
Ending up costing him several hundred quid.
Now i do not condone this but turned out the customer was renting out the flat on air bnb, seems somebody booked the flat and copied the key! somebody later stole the boiler! not sure who would do such a thing - must be scrap metal thieves.. they also saw fit to put expanding foam into the pipes and loosen joints. also splashed bright red paint on all the white walls! Would have cost a lot of money to put right... karma is a funny thing and always comes back round..

Well clearly who would condone such a thing

 

[Stevesplatto]

Thank you for this.
Most of my work starts well within 14 days. Looking for something that would have protected me for an immediate start.
Cheers
Steve

Not good, whilst the law is there to protect the public from unfair tradesmen it can be misused, as in this case, to fleece innocent businesses which should not be possible.

The attached pdf (if the forum allows it) is the schedules 2 and 3 from the legislation that details the information you need to supply.

If you supply a fully featured quote or estimate with your business details on it then the following additional wording could be used to cover the provision of an off premises service contract.
However it is critical that you asses the information needed and ensure you are covered for what you do. This is just an example.

Right to cancel

You have the right to cancel this contract within 14 days without giving any reason. The cancellation period will expire after 14 days from the day of acceptance.
To do so you must clearly inform the company of your decision to cancel this contract (by email or equivalent) before the cancellation period expires.
If you cancel (apart from deductions for loss of value from handling beyond establishing the nature, characteristics and function of the goods and delivery charges above standard delivery) the company will reimburse all payments received from the customer within 14 days or less of the return of goods, if applicable, or the receipt of the cancellation notice, by the original method of payment unless agreed otherwise. Goods must be sent back by the customer within 14 days of the date of cancellation, you will have to bear the direct cost of returning such goods.
If service is requested to start during the cancellation period the customer will pay, in relation to the cost of the contract, a proportional amount relating to the work done until the cancellation took place.

 

[Stevesplatto]

Thanks for this, very useful
Steve

I was looking into this last week (slow week), took me a couple of days to get my head round it. The main issues are:

1. Only relevant to consumers (not businesses).
2. You need to tell them about their right to cancel. Failing to do so can result in the customer effectively doing you over, as per the original post.
3. The right to cancel does not apply in a couple of circumstances relevant to our trade: (a) when the customer invites you into their home to do urgent repair work, and (b) anything "made to measure."
4. If you do work within the 14 day period, (and you've told them of their right to cancel) then they can still cancel at any time, but they must pay you for (a) your time, (b) any materials you can't remove without damaging, (c) a reduction in value of items (e.g. wear and tear) that you can remove, (d) costs of returning items; all provided that you have informed them of all this at the beginning.

I used the following links for my research, they're worth a read:

• Citizen's Advice (sets out the consumer's rights, so coming at it from the consumer's perspective): Cancelling building or decorating work.
• Business companion (sets out the requirements from a business perspective): Consumer contracts: distance sales.
• Legislation.gov.uk: Model instructions for cancellation.

I've now appended information about "your right to cancel (if you're a consumer)" to my terms of business, which I email to anyone who wants more than a small amount of work doing.

But crumbs, what a headache! (And all sympathy to the original poster).

 

[Stevesplatto]

Hi,
Would it be possible to post a copy of your terms of business?
Cheers
Steve

I was looking into this last week (slow week), took me a couple of days to get my head round it. The main issues are:

1. Only relevant to consumers (not businesses).
2. You need to tell them about their right to cancel. Failing to do so can result in the customer effectively doing you over, as per the original post.
3. The right to cancel does not apply in a couple of circumstances relevant to our trade: (a) when the customer invites you into their home to do urgent repair work, and (b) anything "made to measure."
4. If you do work within the 14 day period, (and you've told them of their right to cancel) then they can still cancel at any time, but they must pay you for (a) your time, (b) any materials you can't remove without damaging, (c) a reduction in value of items (e.g. wear and tear) that you can remove, (d) costs of returning items; all provided that you have informed them of all this at the beginning.

I used the following links for my research, they're worth a read:

• Citizen's Advice (sets out the consumer's rights, so coming at it from the consumer's perspective): Cancelling building or decorating work.
• Business companion (sets out the requirements from a business perspective): Consumer contracts: distance sales.
• Legislation.gov.uk: Model instructions for cancellation.

I've now appended information about "your right to cancel (if you're a consumer)" to my terms of business, which I email to anyone who wants more than a small amount of work doing.

But crumbs, what a headache! (And all sympathy to the original poster).

 

[The Ghost]

I have had a couple of clients like that. I think we should have a register of professional customers like this so we could be warned off of doing work for them. There is no doubt in my mind that the people who ripped me off knew how to play the system and do it on an ongoing basis.