Cancellation rights trap.

Stevesplatto · Jan 15, 2018

Just got out of a small claims court. A technicality just cost me £750!
Goes like this:
I provided an estimate for remedial works left over by a previous electrician who was sacked bt the client. Dont usually take these on but his wife was 9 months prenantand they were desperate to get the bedroom completed.
Raised an estimate with a strong caveat that there may well be more works on further investigation (and there was, shocking work). Started the next day with an email acceptance.
2 1/2 days in with 1/2 a day to go the client sacks me. I raise an invoice for the work done. The client pays the bill under protest and takes out a small claims saying that under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 because I didnt give information on cancellation rights I have to refund him the money for my labour so far.
The judge very apologetically agreed on legal grounds and I have to pay the client £750 incl court costs!

Most of my work starts within 14 days and a fair proportion is within 2-3 days of agreeing the estimate. Does anyone have any wording that would satisfy the regulations for work that is cancelled after it has comenced?
Cheers

Stevesplatto · Jan 23, 2018

baldelectrician said:
I have just put a bit in the downloads section

Thanks, where is the downloads section?

Wilko · Jan 24, 2018

elsparko said:
so i could have someone come and build me a house and then not pay them for it? seems legit

And if a brick falls out 15 years later, have it rebuilt as it's clearly failed before it should've ...

elsparko · Jan 24, 2018

only costs a half thou to get a few legs broken, i wish someone would try and not pay me

elsparko · Jan 24, 2018

pretty stupid to invite someone to your home address to rip them off also LOL

how much does a double glazing cost? tyres? etc etc..

static zap · Jan 24, 2018

elsparko said:
only costs a half thou to get a few legs broken, i wish someone would try and not pay me

..Do make sure you research you customers don't have friends on Lower places... (Scary nr Brum prison ..500->20)

elsparko · Jan 24, 2018

static zap said:
..Do make sure you research you customers don't have friends on Lower places... (Scary nr Brum prison ..500->20)

im sure i have friends in much lower places

MFS Electrical · Apr 15, 2018

Stevesplatto said:
Just got out of a small claims court. A technicality just cost me £750!
Goes like this:
I provided an estimate for remedial works left over by a previous electrician who was sacked bt the client. Dont usually take these on but his wife was 9 months prenantand they were desperate to get the bedroom completed.
Raised an estimate with a strong caveat that there may well be more works on further investigation (and there was, shocking work). Started the next day with an email acceptance.
2 1/2 days in with 1/2 a day to go the client sacks me. I raise an invoice for the work done. The client pays the bill under protest and takes out a small claims saying that under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 because I didnt give information on cancellation rights I have to refund him the money for my labour so far.
The judge very apologetically agreed on legal grounds and I have to pay the client £750 incl court costs!

Most of my work starts within 14 days and a fair proportion is within 2-3 days of agreeing the estimate. Does anyone have any wording that would satisfy the regulations for work that is cancelled after it has comenced?
Cheers

Don't know how much of this will be of use to you or anyone else on here but i found this on the trading standards website. It is possibly too late to appeal now but maybe for future. It does say that you do not have to give a customer the right to cancel if it falls under an on premises contract and that actually if you think about it most of the work we do or certainly i do falls under this because of a technicality.

Traders that visit a consumer in their home and leave a quotation (or send one to them later), allowing them to decide and enter into a contract when they are ready to do so, will be entering into an 'on-premises contract'. This is because this transaction does not fall within the definition of an 'off-premises contract' unless the consumer agrees to the contract immediately after the trader has left their home, nor is it a 'distance contract'. This is important for many home improvements businesses that work in this way and will, therefore, fall under the requirements for on-premises contracts. This means that business selling in these circumstances only have to provide the information listed in this guide (rather than the larger list for off-premises contracts) and do not have to give cancellation rights. However, if your business uses this approach you must remember that you will be entering into off-premises contracts in those situations when you visit your customer and agree a contract there and then.

Got a massive lump in my throat reading your post and decided it was time to go belt and braces. so I've done my research and think that I will be just fine Hopefully :0 I am of course not a lawyer and I am considering getting one to look at my Ts&Cs but Id appreciate it if anyone on here would cast a Beady Eye over it and give me your thoughts. Maybe even help to add something I forgot about??
If anyone would like to have a read at my terms and conditions fire me a wee PM and ill send you the link to my website where i have them published.

baldelectrician · Apr 15, 2018

MFS Electrical said:
Traders that visit a consumer in their home and leave a quotation (or send one to them later), allowing them to decide and enter into a contract when they are ready to do so, will be entering into an 'on-premises contract'.

An 'on premises' contract IMO is a contract entered in to on a business premises- such as a shop or similar

One thing that crossed my mind- what if you have a mobile office in your van (a laptop and a seat). If you made the client sign the contract there then the contract is 'on premises' as you own the van (and it is not parked on their drive)

I send all my quotes with the cooling off period thing now- saves hassle, although many of my clients are landlords and the cooling off period may not apply (business to business transaction)

Octopus · Apr 15, 2018

baldelectrician said:
I send all my quotes with the cooling off period thing now- saves hassle, although many of my clients are landlords and the cooling off period may not apply (business to business transaction)

Out of interest, would you share the wording on the forum? or by pm?

baldelectrician · Apr 15, 2018

Additional terms:

This quotation is valid from the date shown at the top for a period of 7 days, after which time a new quotation may have to be carried out.

Your right to cancel this contract (If applicable) and details of our complaints policy are below.

The right to cancel may or may not apply to landlords letting out a property. In many circumstances landlord works are a business – business transaction. .... Electrical cannot give advice if these works may or may not be covered with the cooling off regulations.

It is up to the client to ascertain this by seeking their own independent legal advice should they desire.

The guarantee does not cover consumable items, or any item with batteries or lights with non-removable lamps

This does not affect any of your other legal rights in relation to this contract.

Payment of deposit deems acceptance of terms and conditions set out at the web link below.

FULL BUSINESS TERMS ARE at our website

WEB LINKhttps://www.landlordtest.scot/terms-and-conditions

PLEASE READ THESE AS YOU WILL BE LEGALLY BOUND BY THEM IF WE ENTER INTO A CONTRACT. THIS DOCUMENT DOES NOT CREATE A CONTRACT BETWEEN US.

Trader Details:

JO BLOGGS trading as ‘BLOGGS ELECTRICALl’

ANY STREET

ANYWHERE

. POST CODE email

Customer Details: (name / address)

Contract details: (reference number / details etc. sufficient to identify the contract offer)

Date:

You (the customer) have the right to cancel this contract if you wish. This right can be exercised by delivering, or sending notice to THE ELECTRICIAN at any time within the period of 7 days starting with the date of receipt of this notice. The notice of cancellation is deemed to be served as soon as it is posted or sent* or in the case of electronic communication from the day it is sent.

* signed for / recorded delivery is insisted upon to prevent any ambiguity.

If work on the above contract has begun, with your written agreement, before the end of the cancellation period, you may be required to pay for any goods or services supplied. Standard Scottish contract law applies if cancellation rights are waived.

You may use the cancellation form provided below only if you wish to do so.
"-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

‘If you wish to cancel the contract you MUST DO SO IN WRITING and deliver personally or send (which may be by electronic mail) this to the person named below. You may use this form if you want to but you do not have to.

(Complete, detach and return this form ONLY IF YOU WISH TO CANCEL THE CONTRACT.)

To JO BLOGGS trading as ‘BLOGGS ELECTRICALl’

I/We (delete as appropriate) hereby give notice that I/We (delete as appropriate) wish to cancel my/our (delete as appropriate) contract

Works cancelled: _________________________________________________________________

Signed:

Name and Address:

Date:

MFS Electrical · Apr 15, 2018

baldelectrician said:
An 'on premises' contract IMO is a contract entered in to on a business premises- such as a shop or similar

One thing that crossed my mind- what if you have a mobile office in your van (a laptop and a seat). If you made the client sign the contract there then the contract is 'on premises' as you own the van (and it is not parked on their drive)

I send all my quotes with the cooling off period thing now- saves hassle, although many of my clients are landlords and the cooling off period may not apply (business to business transaction)