Ceiling Wiring Confusion (4 wires)

[DIYnewbie]

Hello forum,

I'm stumped about how to correctly and safely wire up a new light fitting and stupidly didn't take a picture of the existing ceiling rose set up before removing it. I was wondering if someone here could help me out! I've attached a picture of the four wires that are coming out of the ceiling, and I think the top black wire was going into the hole where the brown wire was connected on the ceiling rose pendant, and the bottom black wire was going into the hole where the blue wire was connected on the ceiling rose pendant. The other two must be part of the switching loop? But I just can't figure it out correctly, and have tried a couple of combinations only for the trip switch to go every time. In terms of the connection of the new light, it has just a blue and a brown going into a junction box that has 4 holes available on the other end, 2 that are lined up with the brown and 2 that are lined up with the blue...
Does anyone know how to correctly fix this?
Thanks in advance!!

View attachment 36042

 

[slingshot2000]

You may not like this; but the best advice is for you to call an electrician. I think the confusion with where to connect each core may be the least of your worries.

 

[SJD]

I'm not seeing any earth wires? Possibly the older red/black cable doesn't have any? If you plan on fitting a metal class I fitting, then it must be earthed, if you are unsure (and unable to test) then you need an electrician who can check.

 

[ImpededLoop]

Is your new light fitting metal as you don't seem to have any earthing there.

Best thing would be to call in an electrician who can ensure it's safe. Unfortunately relying on the mcb to trip using trial and error is more dangerous than many people realise and could cause more problems.

 

[westward10]

One cable is a 3 core and cpc in the new colours, one core and the cpc are cut off. As above get an electrician out because even though lighting can be done in several technicolour ways yours looks a bit DIY/non conventional.

 

[Andy-1960]

Is your new light fitting metal as you don't seem to have any earthing there.

Best thing would be to call in an electrician who can ensure it's safe. Unfortunately relying on the mcb to trip using trial and error is more dangerous than many people realise and could cause more problems.

What he said!

 

[DIYnewbie]

Thanks for the quick replies all. I did think the lack of earths was a bit odd. The house was built in the 50s, but I don't understand why there were earth wires in one room where I had changed a light fitting already, but then not in this room?!

I won't be doing any more trial and error attempts! Will try and get an electrician in.

Here's the new fitting's inputs...where would the various wires go into this anyway? It's an IKEA PS 2014 light fixture.

View attachment 36043

View attachment 36044

 

[telectrix]

impossible to say without determining what's what coming out of the ceiling. as said before, definitely call an electrician.

 

[ImpededLoop]

I won't be doing any more trial and error attempts! Will try and get an electrician in.

Here's the new fitting's inputs...where would the various wires go into this anyway? It's an IKEA PS 2014 light fixture.

Your electrician should be able to explain once they've worked out and tested the wiring.

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for the quick replies all. I did think the lack of earths was a bit odd. The house was built in the 50s, but I don't understand why there were earth wires in one room where I had changed a light fitting already, but then not in this room?!

I won't be doing any more trial and error attempts! Will try and get an electrician in.

Here's the new fitting's inputs...where would the various wires go into this anyway? It's an IKEA PS 2014 light fixture.

View attachment 36043

View attachment 36044

Another room may have a cpc, but this would be off in a 1950's house, and you have no way to check if it's connected to anything.

When you get a spark in check you have a decent earth at the same time

 

[Richard Burns]

The push fit connector on the light will be physically easy to connect but you may well need another connector to join some of the cores. The wiring is definitely DIY and non conventional, whoever put the newer cable in was not thinking at all. Original 1950s wiring could have been done without earth wires and then as and when parts of the circuit were rewired the earths could then be introduced, but as said above they may not have been connected to the rest of the earthing system.
Only testing of the cores will permit the identification of which wire does what.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I would be looking at the switch wiring.
Looks like someone has used 2 Cores of a 3 core & earth cable as either a switch wire, or a feed to or from another light.

 

[DIYnewbie]

Thanks for all the responses. Sounds like the wiring is a shambles! Really didn't want to be paying an electrician for what seemed like a tiny job, but I may well have to now by the sounds of it. Cheers

 

[DIYnewbie]

This was one attempt by the way...but this causes the mains to trip too

View attachment 36047

 

[Octopus]

^^ The bang test!