certification

[brucelee]

Hi All

I have a question regarding correct certification
I carried out some work which included a CCU change , New shed supply and final circuits , another new circuit and some replacement acessories so issued a EIC for additions and alterations to an existing

I have then had to go back and carry out urgent remedial work as there was L-N IR fault on the house lighting
couldnt rectify fault at time of above has had to seek permission from customer regarding removal of wood flooring and carpets so I isolated the circuit and locked off as well as informing the customer I had already rectified mutlipe loose connections and hidden connector blocks in loft under a ton of insualtion Not taped nothing the Resistance was apporaching 6 ohms

I then got permission to carry out the work as well as some additional work
So I traced the fault it was a Pendent base shoved under flooring above original half of kitchen the Neutral flex was jsut hanging by about 3 stranded Visible heat damage to it and the neutral terminal and the loops had nearly burned through to the neutrals on the 3 plate pendent base No lid even then connector blocks 2.5mm T/E looped in and out and more connector blocks with 1.0mm T/E to Gu10s installed at side of beams etc
It was done when He had his kitchen extended and a new fitted kitchen this is only one of many issues and faults I have found

So rewired, repositioned, removed from house lighting and added to existing kitchen circuit which is a kitchen extension
so as to create 1 circuit for all the kitchen and utility and remove some of the load from existing hosue lights
I also installed a new supply for existing outside lighting from a RCBO and installed 2 new FCUs 1 for existing soffit lights and 1 for existing security light

I have then replaced a wall fan like for like in bathroom but altered the wiring as it was previously fed from a shower circuit at the 30dp pull switch which has now been removed

so I have teken new feed from existing house lighting and installed a 3A FCU and then a 3 pole Isolator pull switch the load leg is the existing as couldnt change due to damge to decoration Ie tiles


Would you issue a EIC for the LOT
OR
Would you issue a EIC for the NEW supply to the existing outside lights
and 2 MEIWCs for the additions and alterations to the other circuits

I would Like your opinions on the certification you would issue as ELECSA and MY relevent books differ in whats certification is required
I thought EIC and so does some of my books but elecsa think otherwise
Thanks

 

[DurhamSparky]

Eic for new circuits / Change in earthing
mw for the rest

 

[telectrix]

the confusion here is that if the altered circuits are included on the SOTR on the EIC for the CU and new circuits, why issue separate MEWICs for them?

 

[DurhamSparky]

If all work was done around same time then just use Eic.....

Im on our lasses iPad in car so just skimming through posts!!

 

[brucelee]

Hi Mate
Thats what ELECSA reckon

I issued a EIC for the SHED and CCU change
and then was going to issue a EIC for
the new supply to existing outsode lights and the alterations and additions

They reckon a EIC for the new supply
and MEIWCs for the additions alterations to existing

which would mean 3 seperate notifications jsut to work on 3 circuits as 1 is new suply and others are alterations in special locations or installations
Thought they were trying to reduce cost and burden of notification under part P

Christopher Kitchers Guide to I&T says a EIC for new circuit and were addditions and alterations to an existing or seperate MEIWCs for the additions and alterations
NIC inspection , testing and certification say a EIC

SO is A EIC solely FOR new installs , Rewires, CCU changes and NEW circuits or changing overcurrent charicteristics etc and not for any alterations or additions to existing circuits

 

[malcolmsanford]

If you have a look at the notes in appendix 6 of the BGB about an EIC you will see

"The Electrical Installation Certificate is to be used only for the initial certification of a new installation or for an addition or alteration to an existing installation where new circuits have been introduced"

For me it should have been EIC for thenew circuits and a MEIWC for the other.

IMO I would have thought that an EIC could have covered it all, and think that ELECSA are being a bit "Geeky" over this, but I suppose to the letter of the regulations they are right.

But then we do have the argument that appendixes apart from the first are informative rather than normative .................but that is another thread

 

[brucelee]

I was under impression if doing a EIC for the supply to new circuit and carrying out other work then jsut issue for the lot

the SHED and CCU change I issed a EIC for but as there was a fault on lighting I had to then go back and carying out rectification as well as further work

 

[telectrix]

if elecsa want it, then just cut another tree down. anything left over, use for fuel on the fire.

 

[brucelee]

think they are jsut trying to generate more cash not to mention the trees that will be wasted lol
I suppose I will jsut have to do as ELECSA WANT as this will be this years job for assessment

I have already issued and notified the CCU change and shed supply

I was jsut going to notify again last week for this work but decided to ring them over this and a few other things lol and then after I explaned what i had done and was doing he said EIC for the new and MEIWCs for the additions and alterations

Can I use ELECSAs sample 3 circuit MEIWCs for the additions and alterations to save doing 3 certs and 3 notifications

 

[brucelee]

Last question on certs lol

when I am filling in the schedule of inspections If only carrying out work on 1 circuit is the items inspected Only for the circuit thats new or has had work carried out, Earthing , Bonding etc and not the whole installation Ie the other circuits
Ie No selv on this circuit so N/A

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is no requirement in BS7671 to use a MEIWC.
You may use an MEIWC as an alternative to an EIC in instances where an addition or alteration affects only a single 'existing' circuit.

 

[brucelee]

Hi spin Thats what I thought If i was jsut doing a addition or alteration that didnt include a new circuit then would issue MEIWCs
But as I am doing a EIC for the NEW supply thought It was ok to just have it all on one EIC

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Hi spin Thats what I thought If i was jsut doing a addition or alteration that didnt include a new circuit then would issue MEIWCs
But as I am doing a EIC for the NEW supply thought It was ok to just have it all on one EIC

Yes, it sounds as if ELECSA just want to beef up their income.
Do they do a scheme where a reduced fee is paid for a limited number of notifications?

 

[brucelee]

Hi spin wish they did as
since joining last year i have done less than 5 notifications and they haev sent me a letter stating this years fees will be taken on 10th sept my assessment is due end october
I received a email survey regarding there performance and comments on what i thought could be changed
I stated that they should also do a scheme for less than say 5 notifications then half the fees and if you need to notify ore in a single year then you pay the remaining difference

But i dont think they will

so when doing a job on one circuit when filling in the schedule of inspection on a EIC for new circuit do I jsut inspect that circuit and CCU earthing and bonding etc and tick the appropriate boxes
such as if selv is not present on the circuit N/A
or should i be inspecting the whole installation abd because selv is present on another circuit record a tick

 

[Richard Burns]

You only complete the form for the work you are doing so do not include other circuits in the inspection, you can list the circuits on the SoTR for clarity but no test results.
SELV is unlikely to be ticked in any case as it will not be the sole protective measure as ADS will be still in operation even for ELV downlights.