Changes to Part P

[brucelee]

I agree mate watering it down gives the wrong signals as they will think all you have to do now is press a few buttons on a tester
I think the whole set up is a joke they should have just made it illegal for anyone not qualified to do the work not reduce the notifiable jobs, basically it all should be got rid of the whole part p garbage and just introduce a register. You have to give a cert to customer and or client and then send notfication and a copy to LABC for traceability

Basically it going to cost us all the annual costs to sign and take responsibility for someone elses work not to mention new relevent electrical literature that the IET keeps spewing out

I have questioned Elecsa in various emails regarding the changes and 3rd party I&T and they havnt got a clue same with the JIB about QS status and the new so called quals that are now coming out for domestic Qs and for commercial / Industrial Qs
the whole set up is a rip off and complete joke

 

[KAS1]

I remember when the JIB/SJIB card became a "registrar of electricians card" and now it's an ECS/JIB(SJIB) card in my view the ECS/JIB card should be the card that all electricians should hold to legally preform electrical installations industrial/commercial or domestic, all these scams registrations seem to mimic the criteria for S/JIB grading so why not make it the only card required.

 

[oldtimer]

Bruce I hate to say it but the reason that they are not getting back to you is they do have a clue but they are waiting for the Fate Acomplee to take place so that instead of preparing you for the changes they will play the "we are here to help you get through this"
Remember all the Schemies are playing the same game telling everyone that they are the honest broker in all of this.

So from my point of view they would say they are managing their members where some would say the are being led by the nose . So how will it work out well initially they will sell you the this is good money for you as your like an MOT mechanic so you find the problems and bill the customer great only problem is the customer will tell you to bill the contractor who will tell you to get lost ie you are piggy in the middle. No matter how you look at it your revenue stream will all but collapse if you do kitchens and bathrooms installs as any builder who gets wind of this will jump in then some of these £60 EICR companies will look at this and see the potential to earn money by paying Electrical Trainee who are desperate to get into the trade with minimum wage. For me in this current economical climate this is a race to the bottom with the as long there is a RCD fitted then thats fine attitude

 

[brucelee]

when I was applying for JIB card was the same hard work to get the answers was told to get Qs status on my gold card I would need copy of certs inc NVQ an employers signature for section 10 or someone i had subbied for in last 6 months which i hadnt then

I also had to send a copy of recent assessment and certifcate from ELECSA dates within last 3 months
when i asked why it had to be within last 3 months when my registration was annual

she said this was the agreement ELECSA made with them and the other schemes but if i was a memeber of NIC or Napit then one dated within the last year was acceptable
I questioned this and jsut got ELESCA agreed on 3 monthly checks which I explained she was wrong
she said i would need to contact ELECSA regarding this as if they now only carried out annual assessments then they would need to change there agreement with them

Elecsa contacted them on my behalf and came back reason it had to be within last 3 months was that if someone was allowed to regsiter for QS status and only had 1 month registration with a scheme then they couldnt get QS statusd then leave the scheme or fail a month after

My response was again why though is it different for ELECSA competent persons but NIC or NAPIT Members could use one dated more than 3 months I gave up in the end

Anyway got MY JIB gold card the a seperate white card with Qs status for domestic installations and ELECSA logo etc

So back oto JIB asking why it was seperate when she led me to believe that the status would be on the Gold card
I said do you not do that now she said yes can still get QS status on gold card
think I would have to get an employer to sign section 10 of the form or a subbie and to get approved also 2391 which I have think it may be the section 10 thats messed it up
anwyay after paying thousands of pounds of savings and studying for last 3 years whilst being a carer for the mrs, working for free to get hte NVQ I think they taking the PART P???

Elecsa just told me you cant sign someone elses work
as I asked could i go work for a firm and carry out there I&T using my notification which under present rules is not allowed they said no

So I cant sign an elecy, labourer or apprentices work for a firm but under new rules will be able to sign every tom dick or harry who is fDIY or builder etc but not for another firm lol unless you work for that firm and have been assessed as there QS
SO complete waste of time and what they have come up with is a complete sham

 

[oldtimer]

Careful you might just start asking why you are paying £800 for a Scheme membership that see's your revenue drop so you may want to ask if thats the case they may need to drop their subs but don't hold your breath.

I think the trick is to make you believe that nothing has changed with Part P

 

[sbelec]

Third party sign off's wer'nt advised under previous part p but have been given the green light after april, in the form of an EICR.
Which im sure most issue on a regular basis, for systems that they have'nt installed and you dont have to be a scam member to do these. A non registered electrician will be able to carry out work (after first informing BC) do tests and fill in an EIC.

The third party sign off was not advised due to the logistics of responsibility, most major companies have only 1 or registered notifiers and they rely on the "team" complying with the regs. Hence my example as the "responsible person" had missed 2 potentially dangerous hazards but if the householder had been electrocuted with no CPC who would have gone to court? The new regs require "qualified" supervisors who can sign off and supervise employees so we have 2 levels, I can sign off my own work and sign off someone else's but cannot take a supervisors job because I haven't got a supervisors ticket.
The next stage is that only qualified supervisors can sign off 3rd party work and then... and finally we have no self employed tradesmen. The government don't want us even though we keep the big boys honest, like companies who charge £6.95 per month just in case something goes wrong or £72 call out fee, becuase our tax is complex and individual and then of course HMRC believes we are cheats because we don't charge £72 per hour plus VAT.
Big companies drive the changes and the registration bodies are just trying to grow their businesses, hence the muddle for us small trademen.

The you have the JIB card and SCS cards, I don't do any contract work and therefore have never had an employer to sign off either. Same scenario, if you want to work go work for a company!

Sorry for the rant, just used to work for a big company which was operated by directors for directors and their friends the politicians. Saw it on a regular basis where interpretations changed within the company and this was followed by "best practice" and "code of practice" from the government. See this as the same and unfortunately we are the ones getting swatted.

 

[longboat1]

Well dont know about it going to top government level, conspiracy to get rid of sole traders but it is a complete mess, always has been.
The main reason for the change's comes down to what it always does, MONEY. Or rather a lack of it. Councill budgets up and down the country have been slashed. This will certainly be a saving not having to issue cert's for every kitchen, garden light, water feature install, etc.
Then there's the fact that it never really worked even now after eight years i dont think the majority of joe-public have even heard of it.
I never joined a scam mainly out of principal, (i had done my training the proper way and had 8 years experience when part pish came out, but that counted for nothing unless i gave up my hard earned cash to be the same status as a Electrical Trainee) have given it serious thought on many occasions but every year there were always rumours of change so didnt bother.
The only way to sort it out is for a scheme similar to gas safe, prblem is their money grabbing tw*£s also.

 

[edrobbo8]

longboat1, that's an interesting take on it, I haven't been in the trade as long as you and I have been with elecsa for 3 years and have my renewal coming up and am going to ring them tomorrow to clarify these changes.

I do a lot of work for a high end kitchen company and maybe 5% of customers ask if I am part pee, which I was but now I think I won't bother!

They will still get a certificate, still be covered by public liability, still offer my own warranty, 24 hour call out etc etc none of which are different by being with Elecsa!

 

[longboat1]

As a Scottish sparky looking in on this from afar I am sorry to say MDJ that not only will NICEIC allow their members to sign of other peoples work they will positively persue and sell it to their members as a good revenue stream why ? Because this will get them out of the hole that they created remember they pushed for Part P they sold the 5 week training courses so the Jimmy the joiner who was throwing in kitchens could be trained to install electrics safely . So what went wrong well in my view Part P was to be self policed LABC did not have the resources to do it and the Schemies would not do it as they were too busy collecting subs and sending snotty nosed kids to access you whilst at the same time sell you courses because of all the changes ie BGB EICR COP4 I could go on but no doubt it will change yet again before I can push the submit button.

You also need to ask yourself why are they changing this well in my view in this case its not because of changes sake it is just they can no longer hold the flood of Jimmy or Jimsky the kitchen fitters back and are now cutting their losses by saying ok do what you have done for years but our members get to sign it off. So whats the problem well they are all for it but their members will no longer be able to say charge £800-£1500 to wire test and pass a kitchen installation instead they will be expected to fight with the builder/owner about signing it off for £90.

From where I am this is a bigger mess on what you have already

:willy_nilly:. And your wallet.:smilielol5: