Comments advice on report after having Electrical inspection

[nickblake]

so that is the bit on the report under title main switch or circuit breaker - where it says rated residual operating = 35 ma ?

thats the one

 

[johnboy6083]

i have to agree with IQ. i believe im a good electrician, and i take pride in my job. I dont know everything, but i try my best to learn. I wouldnt take on PIR's because i dont beleive im experianced enough to do it properly. I would however ask a friend of mine to take it on, and for me to shadow him to learn.

Ive always been told that the most important attribute in our industry is competency, not qualifications. if these people could take a step back, and realise when they are out of their depth, then maybe we wouldnt have so many unsafe installations

 

[Engineer54]

He may be typical of many, who can do a first class installation, whilst not being at the top of the class with test and inspection.
Incorrect BS numbers and anomalies regard earthing arrangements etc dont mean he doesn't come up to scratch with the installing side

Many who do a fine job and have testing experience for initial verification,they can come unstuck and show weaknesses that can be pointed at by those more experienced Pir lads that you are presently having guidance off

It is generally recognised in the industry that to carry out a Pir, requires above average knowlege of installations,those people who do it regularly have that quality or at least they should have,



Maybe a sort of general condition report that can be used by all,it could be used for domestic installations to give pointers to the client, without including an official type safety piece of paper which would be for re assurance to a third party,insurance company sale etc

It has been my contention that Pirs are open to anybody who believes they can do the work,yet they shouldn't be

I think most could agree with those points Des....

 

[Electricalserv]

i have to agree with IQ. i believe im a good electrician, and i take pride in my job. I dont know everything, but i try my best to learn. I wouldnt take on PIR's because i dont beleive im experianced enough to do it properly. I would however ask a friend of mine to take it on, and for me to shadow him to learn.

Ive always been told that the most important attribute in our industry is competency, not qualifications. if these people could take a step back, and realise when they are out of their depth, then maybe we wouldnt have so many unsafe installations

Its not rocket science doing a PIR though. Confidence is probably a major factor in getting one right or wrong. Experience comes from doing one after the other after the other... and in shorter terms experience is essentially confidence....

 

[johnboy6083]

i agree with your point. for me i think the main thing that would hinder me in PIR's would be older gear. Im used to installing the new stuff, and as such know how it should be done, but stuff like the cutout on the immersion mentioned on an earlier post, i wouldnt know that.
I would still prefer to have guidance on doing my first few PIR's than to think ive done it right, and carry on doing it that way, even though i may be wrong

 

[bugsy]

I hav'nt read all the threads but the are enough inconsitences in the report to question ability of this op .35m/a rcd metric cable in a 46 year old installtion
and no RCD protection
If you going to do a periodic ( and apparently take 4 hours to do it) there should be no excuse.

and if he was'nt quite sure there are plenty of tech guides to help him ( NIC - EIC inspecting testing and verification inc periodic reporting )

 

[PC Electrics]

I've been lurking on this thread with interest, PIR's are our core business and I can tell you now that on the rare occasion that we do find a previous report, more often than not, it is of a similar standard to the one (s) in question here.

I'd probably take a good 10 seconds to see this report for what it is-incompetent, incoherent rubbish.

It's not often that I find myself disagreeing with Malcolm but in this case, I do, these are the sort of reports that we have to compete with and clients should be able to trust.

They devalue our whole industry and force prices down even though the end product bares no resemblance to what the client has paid for!

If the key word in periodic inspection reports is 'COMPETENCY' then I defy anyone on this forum to defend the competency of the inspector in question.

I'm not interested in prices of remedial works, in any industry, there will be a large difference in prices for a set task, often influenced by location and overheads amongst other things.

Yes, the 2391-10 assists in proving competency but I can tell you from our experience that passing the 2391-10 does not immediately make an inspector competent, it's just another component in the path to competency.

I've had 2391-10 electricians on PIR's looking totally dumbfounded when faced with a board full of 3871's or 3036's, 4293's etc. etc. where are these devices in the 2391-10 course?

On another thread, I said that we only use approved electricians with 2391-10 and also have a small 'test' that is based on some of the items that I've just listed above, it helps to avoid the awful situation of telling someone that they're not good enough after one shift.

The first comment that was added following that was something along the lines of 'wow, you're just domestic installers aren't you?'

I think that attitude to domestic work/inspection is one of the reasons for the subject of this thread.

here, here
here, here

It really gets my goat when people refer to me as just a domestic installer.
There are 29 million homes in this country. Someones got to service that market, which is exactly what I set out to do and now make a fine living doing so, thank you very much. It was a choice - there's a lack of good domestic installers in my area, so now I'm sweeping up.

I agree with the other correspondent who says competancy not qualifications.

Cheap shoddy reports like this one are constantly lowering the clients expectations. I do loads of repair work for a local letting agent, but very few PIRs because I refuse to do them cheap (I aim for 75%+ inspection).

Several times in this thread, Wingers has refered to the report and much of what has been said as 'double dutch'. Part of doing a PIR, surely, is ensuring the client understands what it's about, not just handing over a piece of paper and walking away????

 

[DurhamSparky]

I dont know if my neon screwdriver/volt stick can measrure a Ze..........................

But who needs it anyway, sit in the van and make the figures up!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding, my names not Durham. lol

James your a Muppet!!

 

[telectrix]

Yahoo! Image Detail for - http://www.forfoxsake.com/images/muppet_animal.jpg

 

[wingers]

Several times in this thread, Wingers has refered to the report and much of what has been said as 'double dutch'. Part of doing a PIR, surely, is ensuring the client understands what it's about, not just handing over a piece of paper and walking away????

Yes that is certainly something I agree with - it's alright giving me paperwork with all technical figures etc on - but at least give a clear english explanation too!!

Perhaps someone could tell me in English what each of the quoted items are - and what benefit having them done will give me:-

1) Replace consumer unit with a 17th edition dual RCD unit - I understand I think what it is, but what is the benefit to me?

2) Rewire lighting circuit - again I understand what he is advising, but other than risk of electrocution (although I assume low as have all plastic switches) what is the benefit and any risks I am missing?

3) Replace earthing conductor and fit main bonding - I understand the earthing conductor is the pole that goes into the ground?, but what benefit does replacing it give me, and I certainly have no idea what main bonding is

P.S. also what order would you recommend doing them in as can't afford to do all at once

Have another electrician coming to take a look and quote next week so looking forward to second opinion - but would like to understand a bit more about the above

Thanks guys

 

[nickblake]

Yes PC i agree Little mrs jones wont know what you are talking about when you show them the test certs , whats an RCD people just dont know , it doesnt matter wether you a domestic installer or cover every thing were all in the same group , i will take the inspection reports and sit with the customer and go through it with them step by step and explain it to them , and what im about to say i will get shot down , the dreaded coding , a code 4 means absolutly nothing to a customer it will to us sparks but the otheer code do requires improvement , further investigation and requires urgent attention self explanitory so im with PC on this one

 

[Voltimax]

Wingers, I'm in the Norwich area, East Dereham to be precise. Feel free to contact me via PM and let me know who these sparks are. I know who most of the incompetents are in this area and would be happy to steer you clear of them.

 

[pushrod]

Hi Wingers, ( i answered a few of your Qs on your first thread) there are enough inconsistencies in that report and for the fact that you are being quoted for unnecessary work (16mm² earth to a TT earth rod) that makes me think you would be wise to get several more quotes. Although rewiring the lights to include a cpc (earth) is obviously desireable, if you have class 2 (no metal/double insulated) light fittings and wooden back boxes or nylon screws with no metal switches it is not immediately essential. The IR readings on the cables (if they are to be believed) indicated that there was nothing wrong with your existing cables (other than they are missing a cpc) and only you know the state of your finances and future plans for alterations and decoration etc etc.

 

[wingers]

Hi Wingers, ( i answered a few of your Qs on your first thread) there are enough inconsistencies in that report and for the fact that you are being quoted for unnecessary work (16mm² earth to a TT earth rod) that makes me think you would be wise to get several more quotes. Although rewiring the lights to include a cpc (earth) is obviously desireable, if you have class 2 (no metal/double insulated) light fittings and wooden back boxes or nylon screws with no metal switches it is not immediately essential. The IR readings on the cables (if they are to be believed) indicated that there was nothing wrong with your existing cables (other than they are missing a cpc) and only you know the state of your finances and future plans for alterations and decoration etc etc.

Thanks pushrod - have got someone coming wednesday to take a look and give second opinion