commisioning fire alarm

[Sb8389]

On that note I would not even be crossing the threshold.

A couple of pictures I took today off what I’m dealing with.

 

[westward10]

Walk away. We used to do a lot of social housing and any sign of drug use we about turned and walked out.

 

[DPG]

No amount of money would get me through that door. The risks are very high, and I would advise caution if you do decide to go ahead with it.

 

[The Ghost]

Do not enter that place again. Really! It is not just the immediate danger of needles and attendant worries you also have to consider the possibility of real trouble breaking out there from other sources and you could be in the middle of it. I know you may need the money but it is really not worth it. I know exactly what I am talking about and I can assure you you are in more danger than perhaps you realise. Sorry to be so pointed but there it is.

 

[DPG]

As Vort says, there could be all sorts of problems from other users, dealers, etc.

 

[Darkwood]

Looking at the pictures you need a full system 2 stage set up where you have communal 'bed head sounders' in most rooms from the main panel, linked alert to a response unit (auto call out to fire brigade) .. unless station is close enough to negate a auto dial... the regs do state that full interaction is needed with building control and fire services and a mutual agreed system fitted.

 

[Sb8389]

Looking at the pictures you need a full system 2 stage set up where you have communal 'bed head sounders' in most rooms from the main panel, linked alert to a response unit (auto call out to fire brigade) .. unless station is close enough to negate a auto dial... the regs do state that full interaction is needed with building control and fire services and a mutual agreed system fitted.

Really!!! Is that something that the designer should be picking up, none of this was mentioned by the council or the designer. Are you basing this on the risk assessed with the way the tenants live.

 

[Darkwood]

Really!!! Is that something that the designer should be picking up, none of this was mentioned by the council or the designer. Are you basing this on the risk assessed with the way the tenants live.

Your expected tenants can have a massive impact on design both cost and level of cover, this is all clearly set out in the standards, I just done a series of flats for ex addicts, crims etc and had to do a system that accounted for their condition, it added about 4k to the job but my arse is covered.. most people think there insurance will be a fall back but that will not help if they haven't followed the standards nor agreed with the local fire service and building control.. for the insurance firms any slight deviation from the regulations will void cover unless all parties agree on the design.

 

[Sb8389]

Your expected tenants can have a massive impact on design both cost and level of cover, this is all clearly set out in the standards, I just done a series of flats for ex addicts, crims etc and had to do a system that accounted for their condition, it added about 4k to the job but my arse is covered.. most people think there insurance will be a fall back but that will not help if they haven't followed the standards nor agreed with the local fire service and building control.. for the insurance firms any slight deviation from the regulations will void cover unless all parties agree on the design.

Oh great!!! Got me panicking now as I quoted based on the council and the designers requests of what’s required (now the system is already installed) I’m now thinking I’ve either underquoted if it requires a lot More work or I leave it and left myself open should anything happen. Would I not be covered based on paperwork from the council stating there requirements and the designer commissioning the system

 

[Darkwood]

I will add that everything on designed systems for multiple occupancy has to have a paper trail, even a confirmation from the system suppliers of the cat' level of your project and that the system they supplied meets that level, the idea you can go to the local wholesalers and order a load of gear and pay for is ignorant to the requirements... if the worst happens one needs to have a solid trial to show everything was designed and agreed and supplied correctly.

 

[Darkwood]

Oh great!!! Got me panicking now as I quoted based on the council and the designers requests of what’s required (now the system is already installed) I’m now thinking I’ve either underquoted if it requires a lot More work or I leave it and left myself open should anything happen. Would I not be covered based on paperwork from the council stating there requirements and the designer commissioning the system

If you have an independent designer and the council is giving you the required level of protection then your arse is covered, it is there design, just make sure you keep a paper trail and don't lose any letters or emails ..

 

[Darkwood]

If you get the job state clearly to the wholesalers the level of system in email that you require and keep and document all responses and confirmation, this is part of the requirements, I guess that I have needed to explain this that you do not hold the required regulations to follow, this is a dangerous position to be in if you go beyond domestic which itsekf tends to have enough guidelines on design for the average spark to follow without buying the regs .. when you move out of domestic I would definitely be buying the regs both parts 1 and 6

 

[Darkwood]

Ps given the expected tenants, if the designer hasn't put in sounders in the bedrooms, lounge etc of the flats from the communal alarm I would be raising questions but info is limited here and I may be over complicating this design based on one I recently did.

 

[Michaelwgroves]

As the council are involved I suspect it is a HMO. Even a block of self-contained flats can be classed as a HMO. If they do not comply with building regulations from 1991, they will likely be classed as HMO.
I would take a look at LACORS, it's free and very good. It is the bible for an installation such as this.
https://www.rla.org.uk/docs/LACORSFSguideApril62009.PDF
In all honesty I don't think you should be signing this off, If you are not confident enough to design, you are not competent to commission. Part of commissioning is to check the correct detectors and sounders are located in the correct positions. Are the MCP's located on the correct zone. The design engineer does not typically have the benefit of a site visit. So he won't allow 2 detectors to overcome a drop beam etc. It's your job as the commissioning engineer to spot these design flaws.

 

[westward10]

Ceiling beams are only an issue if the are 20% or above the floor to ceiling height in which case you treat them as walls.