confused with light wiring in kitchen

[DaveyD]

You don't say if you have live at switch or fitting,losing the neutral will stop the lights working in the same way as losing the live will.

Yep. Had that before. The handyman going round with a "light stick' could not figure it out. Understandable.
It was a lost neutral. Not accessible.

 

[Engineer54]

Why haven't you started lifting floorboard in the affected area (to start with). You have joints, and you'll need to find it or them, to clear the fault!!

You haven't even mentioned if you have measured any voltage at the connections you have found.

 

[abuameer]

Why haven't you started lifting floorboard in the affected area (to start with). You have joints, and you'll need to find it or them, to clear the fault!!

You haven't even mentioned if you have measured any voltage at the connections you have found.

Hi there,

The lost neutral seems to be the one i need to go for but inaccessible. Lifting floorboard is not an option unfortunately. the fact that i am wiring permanent live and neutral to a new light pendant must mean that there is a lost neutral. There is voltage reaching the light as i have tested it. I guess one thing i havent checked is the lights nearby to see if the neutral has come loose from there. Whats the likelihood of a rodent chewing the neutral cable (i dont know as i have not come across this before).
I will get my tester and check basic continuity and also find out which goes where etc etc. Appreciate your help on this. I know i can just re-wire and fix the problem but im the sort of person who will not sleep until i know for sure what has happened. Sad i know.

 

[paul_h]

Thanks for your replies guys. I have pulled more cable out of ceiling and I can see three red wires joined together with one to the lighr and three neutrals with one to the light and three earths. They are all intact and solid connections. Does this mean further down the wire there must be another junction box. I havent changed any configuration to the wiring and it was working fine a week ago. any further ideas. Thanks.

This is is the bit I'm struggling with....... 3 reds together? (Would suggest Loop in ) ? But 3 blacks together?

I can't understand this, even if there was joints somewhere why u would have 3 reds and 3 blacks? Which then connect into the fitting. Unless there are multiple lights in the kitchen which the op hasn't said unless I've missed it?

Is the op a spark?

 

[NJR]

.

Sounds like the OPs friend has changed the light and stuck all the colours together but wouldnt explain why the o/s light isnt working.

 

[jaypp]

this one got to me (concerning strappers) and after alot of thought and sketching of possible wiring configuration, would like to know if you have a permanent feed at the 2g switch, whether 3 red n black conductors @ kitchen light include the ones that enter fitting and what cables/conductors you have at outside light. a possible configuration of 2way wiring would only allow l1/l2 to be connected in one particular way to work correctly.

Sounds like the OPs friend has changed the light and stuck all the colours together

- surely then the kitchen light would be on continuously?
if you solved yourself, let us know result. cheers

 

[abuameer]

Hi,

I went back to the property to do some more testing. Please see attached diagram. I hope its clear.

I have omitted the garden light as I haven't checked wiring there yet.

I separated all wires and did continuity and then switched mains on to see where live is coming from. The two live seemed to be linked somehow even whilst all connections are removed.

I understand what needs to be done to fix it. No return neutral. But any ideas where the black and red (with ?) at ceiling would have gone to? I'm guessing black was the return neutral but what about red?

Thanks. Will fix this soon.

 

[UNG]

I really think you need to go back and do some proper testing and checks after disconnecting and not testing through switches, lamps etc

If it is wired as your diagram it is very obvious why it doesn't work and would never have worked

 

[telectrix]

start from scratch. use existing cables if possible, but be prepared to make some holes.

 

[abuameer]

I really think you need to go back and do some proper testing and checks after disconnecting and not testing through switches, lamps etc

If it is wired as your diagram it is very obvious why it doesn't work and would never have worked

Hi,

The fact is...it did work. And can work as long as neutral has a return path which in this case doesn't and hence why it doesn't work. I know this because I run a return back to a working return and works but installation not complete due to customer wanting appearance to look good.

Please expand on 'proper testing'? do you mean disconnecting all wires (which is what I did) or is there something I am missing.

Thanks for all your inputs. I appreciate it and have learnt a lot.

 

[UNG]

Hi,

The fact is...it did work. And can work as long as neutral has a return path which in this case doesn't and hence why it doesn't work. I know this because I run a return back to a working return and works but installation not complete due to customer wanting appearance to look good.

Please expand on 'proper testing'? do you mean disconnecting all wires (which is what I did) or is there something I am missing.

Thanks for all your inputs. I appreciate it and have learnt a lot.

Your diagram links L2 on one of the switches to the neutral of the light if I am understanding your diagram correctly as the cable leaving the switch is yellow I assume you are getting a reading through a lamp that you have not disconnected

It looks like your neutral is loose at another fitting

 

[jaypp]

you're right, this would work. on this circuit find the light (or switch if feed is there) prior to this that works and check connections. if it's not difficult to check outside light, check that too as the unlikely 'simple' solution sometimes makes me kick myself for ignoring it. the black '?' probably neutral and you can check continuity to prior light. red '?' may just be spare conductor

 

[Richard Burns]

Based on the diagrams and pictures I would expect it would be something like the attached diagram, where the neutral supply from a previous light has become disconnected.
Why there are three lines at the kitchen light, unless there is another lamp, or the garden light only comes on when the kitchen light is on, I do not know.
Why a three core cable has been used (only using two cores) for the garden light?
However the only way to tell is to be there; so this is all supposition.