Consumer Unit Changes - What make & what price?

[Spazz]

This is what I have in my flat - all earths connected to the main earth terminal in the electric cupboard and thats where the water and gas are bonded for all flats. Not a big problem because all the flats in the block are connected to this one earth terminal.

The house in question was a detached house (stand alone) with nothing around it - domestic but could be classed as a farm house but on TNC-S. The house was occupied by the farmers daughter and her partner.

Still dont know where the earth was coming from but it was connected to the earth terminal some how - my only worry is if it was connected to a socket earth or something. Im going back there in the next few days - he called me today - hes building an extension so he wants me to wire it up.

I will prob just run a 10mm to the pipes just incase. Gas was tank Gas by the way - should of said!

 

[Welchyboy]

The discussion about bonding has materialised because people appear to be pricing this as an extra/speratlety. When I get asked to do a CU change, I survey and then price for the job, i.e. what needs doing, including bonding if required. I don't really see what the problem is. You just list out in your estimate the proposed work and price?

The Regs and ESC guidelines are clear in that if you are doing a CU change the bonding should be there or put in place at the time of the CU change. Most of the time it isn't expensive to do and on these odd occasions that you have to run the cable from one side of the house to the other you can work through a solution with the customer?

Customers that do not allow you to 'do' the bonding shouldn't be customers. Let someone else do the job and sleep easy at night.

I'm up in Scotland and charge from approx £350+ (plus VAT) for a CU change. Price depends upon board size, and mainly fit RCBO boards

^^This is exactly the right approach, why are people faffing about with £250 for a cu , £100 for some bonding ,getting the customer to help unscrew floorboards to save £20, so your then doing the work for bare minimum, this is crazy and just makes things too complicated, your suppsed to be running a business, not helping your mate out round his house!!

Go to the job, do a survey, give a quote (with a bonding guide if needed), either they accept it or not

I think a customer helping you would be nothing but a hindrance , and makes you look unprofessional

Is work really that scarce out there for some to be scraping the bottom of the barrell for types of customers such as these?

 

[Spazz]

Welshyboy - I have been working as a spark since January - but working with electrics for last 6 years on a regular basis - signing off with LABC as my grandfather was that tight he would not pay NICEIC - would of saved alot mind!


I only go down the route of the customer helping if I think they can manage it!

Some customers want to help and anything easy like running a cable can save you alot of work and keeps them busy and out of the way!

Yes some are a pain in the **** and I want them out of the house not helping me - the odd few are more than capable of helping - use the skills dont waste them!

 

[richy3333]

Its easy to do it your way ricky but when your in the middle of nowhere and the customer calls you up asking how much for a cu change with the impression its just changing the fuse box -
Question - How many boxes have you got?
Question - What type of fuse box do you have? - usually BS3036
Question - how many switches are in the box (on each)?

That tells you a rough price - I explain that I need to see the house before as there is somethings I need to check before I can give a more exact price. but £250 if all bonding in place and no problems occour
They usually book it in there and then

I carry 50m of 10mm and 25m of 25mm bonding on me all the time.

Quick servery of the house, bonding, earthing system, etc, etc, etc

Give a more exact price then if they happy I start there and then.

Yes if they not happy with the price (usually an extra £50 at most!) - I explain the dangers and if they still not having it I issue a EDN on the spot and send a copy to the EHP if its a rental property (see above)

The sight of that Red Notice usually pushes the towards the yes and makes them realise that your not trying to pull a fast one!


If they still not happy then they call around - get quotes and I tell them that it will be an extra 20% due to the extra travel - they always call back and get me back up there.

Sorry mate but I cant agree.

In the game of 'top trumps' I live and work in a far more remote/ rural location than you (and most sparks on the forum). My nearest 'corner shop/Post Office' is 8 miles away. Nearest large supermarket, 2 hour drive, nearest electrical wholesaler 2 hour drive etc etc. Heck, I had to walk 6.5 miles out of a glen at 11.30PM in a blizzard last year when my truck nose dived off the road and I rolled it 3 times! I've been to Pembrokeshire and there isn't anywhere that rural is there mate?

If I get a call on my mobile (thats when I have a reception) if I have the time I would go around and survey the installation the same day, pre test etc, but a CU change should be planned, not stuck in there and then with whatever is on the van. The customer gets an written estimate, a copy of my business terms and copies of the ESC guidelines etc. All that notwithstanding I don't carry spare CU's in the van as you can't cover all eventualities, but that does remind me of an installation I saw that had a 20 way CU fitted and only 5 ways in use. The owner asked why they had such a large unused CU in their house and I pointed out it probably was all the sparky had on the van and couldn't be bothered to get the right sized box for them!

So if I can get it right with all my logistical hurdles to over come, then anyone can?

No bonding, no shiny new CU. End of. I'm proud of my good reputation that's why people come to me to do electrical work rather than the cowboys.

If one can't adequately communicate with the customer why they should use you as a registered spark, the only person thats hurting is the sparks own business. And even if they do use the cowboy at least you then get to sort out the mess when they foul up. One of my most used flippant comments when a customer asks how they can reduce the price is that I tell them to get an unregistered cowboy in to do the work and they'll not get a certificate for the work, nor any guarantee etc. They get the message and I get the work.

 

[Spazz]

where the hell do you live ricky?

Also in Pembrokeshire there are places which requires 1hr drive to supermarkets, etc.

I do a lot of work in places 1 n half hours away in North Pembrokeshire - when you say you been to Pembrokeshire do u mean Tenby?

 

[richy3333]

I'm up in the 'Heelands', 8 miles down a single track road. A 1.5 hour drive is nothing around here

Last time I went to Pembrokeshire I stayed near to Dale but explored all over the area.

 

[Spazz]

Ok makes sense.

Also just to let you know Dale is the smallest town in Pembrokeshire - that area only counts towards 5% at most of the county.

Pembrokeshire is the largest county in Wales by far.

Im not saying your not more remote - but Im sure you know what its like then - limited customers and loads of pub sparks with no Part P Scheme who do anything and everything.

Eitherway back to the topic!

 

[richy3333]

Where we live is the least populated area in northern Europe. There are fewer people per square mile than anywhere.

I look at it another way - the customer base isn't limited, but with historic and endemic 'pub sparks' (some of whom have worked on the said pub electric's too!) it's a case of educating 'Joe public' so they know why to use you. If you think you have it bad, we don't even have Part P in Scotland so it's more of a Wild West with electric's up here.

Either way, and regardless there's never any excuse for not doing something properly and as per the Regs in my opinion.

 

[Plonker 3]

NO BONDING - NO STARTING WORK!

Strange you seem to think different in this thread.

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...-adding-light-switch-existing-cuircuit-2.html

 

[Welchyboy]

Strange you seem to think different in this thread.

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...-adding-light-switch-existing-cuircuit-2.html

With all due respect after reading some of the above linked post it amazes me that this person is a 'registered electrician' just another example of the absolute joke that is 'PART P'

 

[richy3333]

Strange you seem to think different in this thread.

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...-adding-light-switch-existing-cuircuit-2.html

Read this too and far from impressed

 

[Spazz]

Please note that this post was when I first started! First Job under myself. I was being shadowed by a registered sparky who was assisting me at the time.
He told me that I had to ensure earthing was inplace for the circuit I was working on only!
He also told me aload which was mainly wrong.

As soon as this was pointed out I corrected it! - it turned out there was bonding inplace but hidden behind the cupboard out of sight, I only found this out from doing a continuity Test of the pipe - socket and got a very low reading (<0.3 Ohms).

Just to give more info about this spark hes long gone now (from my work) but hes still working (NICEIC) registered and signing off other people's work.

I have done alot of research into Shock Protection as can be seen with regards to the RCD campaign which is with the AM Minister for my MP now in London and waiting for his view, then it will be in Parliament in the next few weeks. Will keep all updated on the FB page.
Yes I know alot dont like this but it will save lives if it goes through and it will generate alot of work for everyone as a result!

Since this job - I never touch a job unless I am 100% happy with all bonding in place and the earth arrangement is upto standard.

I also try and insist (as much as I can) to ensure that a RCD is in place (like I know others do as well).

Just to let people know - this was my first job - shadowed by another spark
Been doing non notifiable wok for 6 years before (that what was notifiable I was having LABC to sign it off as my grandfather was so tight not to go with NICEIC)
I corrected this within 1hr of realizing my mistake
I have since done my 17th Ed and doing my 2391 now - exam in 3 weeks (or so)
If anyone has any questions about my ability - take me on a job (I will work for free!) just pay my travel! and I will show you my level of skill!

 

[trev]

To be honest every member should be inspected at least 5 times a year - and I DONT mean planned inspections!

The scheme provider has the addresses of the customers that you have done work for - how hard is it to send a letter to them asking a few questions:

Would you be happy paying the massive increase in your annual fee that this would generate?
As for the rest of it, "Getting rid of the licensed cowboys" Sorry mate but Part P and Competent Persons Schemes and legislation has not exactly been a roaring success has it?

 

[oldtimer]

Would you be happy paying the massive increase in your annual fee that this would generate?
As for the rest of it, "Getting rid of the licensed cowboys" Sorry mate but Part P and Competent Persons Schemes and legislation has not exactly been a roaring success has it?

I tend to agree with you trev I think we are over regulated I mean what happened before registration companies popped up as for being inspected 5 times a year well yes if you have done a Schemie 5 week course and then all the rest of it . It has also not helped that they are badging anything with a pulse as long as it pays the subs only to turn out to be a box ticking exercise

 

[jase]

"NO BONDING - NO STARTING WORK!"


I'd love to be so busy I could turn down work because the customer does not want me to install it! I've even had cases of customers not wanting it because it wouldn't look nice and regulaly have to paint the cable black to keep them happy. Cant you just use a black one and sleeve it each end?? lol Don't get me wrong, I'm strongly advising it all the time but people just seem to be suspicious of my motives. They are happy to pay to get what they want but don't want to pay for essential safety precautions. I even tell them about the poor lady in Cornwall last year found dead in the bath by her daughter because the taps were live.
I had a strange installation for a friend last weekend, no internal stopcock, no idea where the incoming pipe entered the house. Plastic under the kitchen sink and in bathroom but metal pipes to the new washing machine and copper pipes feeding electric 'wet' heating system. Only one earth wire at conunit. (6mm) disapearing under kitchen floor (polished floorboards) and no sign of earth stake. (TT)
Got to presume 6mm goes to earth stake under kitchen floor due to Ze being reasonable but god knows about the water earthing. Can't lift kitchen floor to inspect without damage. Can't get an earth cable to visible copper pipes at rear of property without running cable surface front to back internally. Just had to recommend it but not heard anything yet about doing it and thats a friend!

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