Cooker switch with 13A socket without RCD

[electro]

Why not just put a "not for general use" sticker on the socket outlet and plug the fridge into it, making the circuit 17th compliant. see 411.3.3 exception b

hi

am i correct in saying even if you put "not for general use" and the installation cable is less than 50mm it still needs an RCD?

i think you have to comply with the installtion method and the notice? not just the notice..

regards

 

[Guest123]

hi

am i correct in saying even if you put "not for general use" and the installation cable is less than 50mm it still needs an RCD?

i think you have to comply with the installtion method and the notice? not just the notice..

regards

Indeed.

 

[electro]

I had to check i keep hearing just stick a notice on for fridge ect use and you dont need an rcd, as i have said the danger of hitting the cable in the wall is still there..

thanks Lenny

 

[Moog]

hi

am i correct in saying even if you put "not for general use" and the installation cable is less than 50mm it still needs an RCD?

i think you have to comply with the installtion method and the notice? not just the notice..

regards

Interesting whats the reg do you mean 522.6.7?
What if it is a <20A cooker feed complying with 522.6.6 i,ii,iii,iv,v ?

 

[skirby]

My view is that in domestic installations: All sockets outlets require rcd protection. All cables less than 50mm deep require rcd protection. A dedicated and labelled socket outlet can be exempt but NOT if fed by a cable buried less than 50mm deep. In domestic installations I see no problem with using rcds & rcbos on everything. Nuisance tripping is rarely a problem.

 

[MTI]

it also has to meet 0.4 disconnectiion time if it has socket outlet

 

[electro]

it also has to meet 0.4 disconnectiion time if it has socket outlet

Hi
A cooker point with a socket outlet does not necessarily have to have a 0.4 disconnection time, on a 40amp breaker it will have a disconnection time of 5sec on overcurrent.

Regards

 

[Graeme Harrold]

I was told without the socket, it was 5s and with a socket, it was reduced to 0.4s due to changing the characteristics of the circiut, always willing to learn the indepth reasoning.

 

[flukey]

I was told without the socket, it was 5s and with a socket, it was reduced to 0.4s due to changing the characteristics of the circiut, always willing to learn the indepth reasoning.

i was with you graeme where does it state that electro for future reference

 

[scotsparky]

electro you can get a 40acb to disconnect in .4 no real problems as there is a Socket you have to worst case is a Type d which is .23 ohms as max Zs in a house that should be no problem unless there is a high ZE

 

[electro]

Hi Graeme Harrold, Flukey

Reg 411.3.2.3 states maximum of 5 seconds and as it exceeds the 32amp threshold of reg 411.3.2.2 . It got me at first as the 16th stated if it had a socket outlet it down rated it to 0.4 sec. It’s the same for shower circuits they are 5 sec as well. A 30mA RCD is required as additional protection on both of these circuits and this should disconnect during an earth fault within 40mS.
I think its good for new sparks stating on the 17th as us older sparks still have the 16th imprinted in our brains and it is hard to let go and think European regs AKA 17th…
Regards

 

[dkent5]

Only factories and such that have 24 hour cover can reasonably be considered to have skilled supervision. We all leave our homes in the morning and our supervision is not there. The 50mm rule should be applied in all cases where there may be ambiguity.You are still allowed not to RCD a particular circuit if it can be deemed for a specific purpose and identified so. A fridgefreezer socket outlet would be a good example.
Bearing in mind that this circuit would not be used by ordinary persons.

 

[flukey]

Hi Graeme Harrold, Flukey

Reg 411.3.2.3 states maximum of 5 seconds and as it exceeds the 32amp threshold of reg 411.3.2.2 . It got me at first as the 16th stated if it had a socket outlet it down rated it to 0.4 sec. It’s the same for shower circuits they are 5 sec as well. A 30mA RCD is required as additional protection on both of these circuits and this should disconnect during an earth fault within 40mS.
I think its good for new sparks stating on the 17th as us older sparks still have the 16th imprinted in our brains and it is hard to let go and think European regs AKA 17th…
Regards

hi electro,
when i did my 17th we were told all ground floor sockets had to disconnect in 0.4 and if you swapped a cooker plate for a cooker plate with a socket then the time dropped from 5s to 0.4s

 

[electro]

Hi Flukey
I was told the same so I contacted the electrical safety council, because my head was telling me 0.4 and the lectures at college were telling me 0.4, but when I read the book it was telling me 5 sec.
Regards

 

[flukey]

Hi Flukey
I was told the same so I contacted the electrical safety council, because my head was telling me 0.4 and the lectures at college were telling me 0.4, but when I read the book it was telling me 5 sec.
Regards

i will dig out my course notes to see if i have details of this.
i know what the regs say but they also say any socket liable to supply equipment blah blah and surely this socket falls into that category