Council bod strikes again

[oscar21]

Here we go again, another job that has had a council inspection, different council to last time but still perplexing.

The problem with these jobs is we don't get a spec and are told to just do what you think is best, so we do. We work for a company that does work for an insurance company that must insure mainly council/housing association type houses as that is the majority of work that we get and they must send in the councils own electrician to give things the once over. We also work on a price per point so we don't go above and beyond like fitting chrome sockets etc if we don;t have to, here are the two things we got pulled on.

1. Plastic blanks in a Wylex consumer unit - should be metal as per the manufacturers instructions
2. Aico heat alarm has 9V battery and not 10 year lithium.

1. Now although I'll admit I haven't read Wylex's instructions for their mains unit (who does?) but as far as I am concerned plastic blanks are perfectly acceptable on a consumer unit, after all, all the MCB/RCD's are made of plastic too. The regs say the consumer unit shouldn't be flammable, not that it has to contain a fire, and being metal it isn't flammable.

2. There aren't any regs stipulating that smoke/heat alarms need to be 10 year life batteries in rental properties, as far as I'm aware you don't even need to fit a heat alarm at all to comply. As a general rule we fit lithium smokes/heats if there is a prepay meter as apparently if the power goes off the tenant is more likely to buy smokes and booze with their last £20 instead of topping the eleccy meter up.

So surely if they want to go above and beyond the regulations in their spec then they should send us one and not tell us to do what we think, am I right.

 

[GBDamo]

If there is no compliance issue and the instruction was simply to comply then any variance on this should be helpfully accommodated, obviously at additional cost.

 

[oscar21]

To be fair I don't mind changing things but maybe I'm being melodramatic about things but when you get an email that's just a forwarded message from the council listing the "faults" I think it implies I don't know what I'm doing.

 

[littlespark]

Agree with point 1. The devices are in a plastic housing, and the blanks that usually come with CUs are plastic… so what’s the difference?

Point 2.
I’ve just done an Aico expert course, and got one of those leaflets highlighting the differences between the countries.

No mention of which type of battery, even though I know the Scottish side is lithium only. They should have mentioned that.

On the other side, however;

It specifically states rental should have a tamper proof battery… which presumably means, not a 9v replaceable.

 

[DPG]

Agree with point 1. The devices are in a plastic housing, and the blanks that usually come with CUs are plastic… so what’s the difference?

Point 2.
I’ve just done an Aico expert course, and got one of those leaflets highlighting the differences between the countries.

View attachment 110139

No mention of which type of battery, even though I know the Scottish side is lithium only. They should have mentioned that.

On the other side, however;

View attachment 110140

It specifically states rental should have a tamper proof battery… which presumably means, not a 9v replaceable.

Ah yes, that's the one with the embarrassing spelling mistake.

 

[littlespark]

Ah yes, that's the one with the embarrassing spelling mistake.

Hadn’t noticed until you mentioned it….

“Exisiting”…..

 

[pc1966]

Wylex do 3 blanks I know of, the plastic "twist fit" ones like this:

Twist Fit Blanking Plate

Twist Fit Blanking Plate

www.cef.co.uk

The equivalent metal ones like this (similar to Axiom ones from Toolstation, actual part has 'EMB1' on it as same for Crabtree):

Push Fit Single Metal Blank

Non removable when the consumer unit cover is secured

www.cef.co.uk

And the blank MCB replacement like this:

Blanking Piece for Distribution Boards

Blanking plate for busbar

www.cef.co.uk

I would say all of the meet the manufacturer's instructions and the usual metal CU door automatically shuts for fire containment anyway. Having said all of that, my observations are:

• The dummy MCB helps keep spacing other MCB/RCBO in the right place when fitting stuff, torquing up, etc, but is not terribly strongly held in place itself with the cover off. It also shrouds the busbar if you are doing any live testing with cover off.
• The plastic "twist fit" cover is loose and never stays where you want it when putting the cover back on.
• The metal one seems to deal with that problem as it clips in place with sharp points (presumably for good connection through paint), also usefully it can be done after fitting the cover so useful for retro-fitting on practically any metal CU as the DIN slot size is pretty standard.

However, for the alarm then they do have an important point as @littlespark points out for rented accommodation it has to be fixed batteries (basically morons "borrow" the PP3 for kids toys, etc, but the council/landlord are liable for failure of the alarms).

 

[James]

Not that anyone would try to fit a blank to an energised board!!
best be careful not to drop the metal blank through the hole, could make some noise and light when it hits the bus bar.

 

[pc1966]

Not that anyone would try to fit a blank to an energised board!!
best be careful not to drop the metal blank through the hole, could make some noise and light when it hits the bus bar.

Yes, good point to make!

Much like the rewirable boards, you should ALWAYS switch off before removing/inserting anything...

 

[timhoward]

It specifically states rental should have a tamper proof battery… which presumably means, not a 9v replaceable.

I'm guessing that this explains why Fireangel supply a little grub screw for the battery compartment. (I don't choose that brand but one builder I work for always first fixes their bases, and if hard wired I live with it).
I'd imagine that 9v replaceable is ok (in these units it is the backup source) as long as it isn't ridiculously easy to pinch the battery.

 

[loz2754]

Agree with point 1. The devices are in a plastic housing, and the blanks that usually come with CUs are plastic… so what’s the difference?

Point 2.
I’ve just done an Aico expert course, and got one of those leaflets highlighting the differences between the countries.

View attachment 110139

No mention of which type of battery, even though I know the Scottish side is lithium only. They should have mentioned that.

On the other side, however;

View attachment 110140

It specifically states rental should have a tamper proof battery… which presumably means, not a 9v replaceable.

Where is it stated that it's a legal requirement to adhere to BS5839-6 when installing smoke alarms in rental properties?
As far as I'm aware, the only statutory document for England is the Smoke Alarm and CO Detector regulations as amended in 2022. There is no mention of types of alarms or batteries in that document. Even the guidance notes only say that it would be better if the batteries were of the non tamper type.
Don't get me wrong, I always strongly recommend following BS5839-6 to landlords and even homeowners, just asking the question as to the legal requirement to do so.

 

[oscar21]

Where is it stated that it's a legal requirement to adhere to BS5839-6 when installing smoke alarms in rental properties?
As far as I'm aware, the only statutory document for England is the Smoke Alarm and CO Detector regulations as amended in 2022. There is no mention of types of alarms or batteries in that document. Even the guidance notes only say that it would be better if the batteries were of the non tamper type.
Don't get me wrong, I always strongly recommend following BS5839-6 to landlords and even homeowners, just asking the question as to the legal requirement to do so.

Quite, this is where I got the info from, the official .gov site

Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (Amendment) Regulations 2022: guidance for landlords and tenants

www.gov.uk

The thing is, these council employee blokes that walk round with a £1500 test meter trying to find every little fault to justify their jobs where in reality their knowledge of the regs is woeful, they have probably been on a 2 week mickey mouse course that told them consumer units need to be fireproof so plastic blanks are wrong whilst totally overlooking the fact that all the switch-gear inside it is made of plastic.

 

[nicebutdim]

Sometimes it's easier to just let such people make their little mark on the world and move on.

 

[oscar21]

Sometimes it's easier to just let such people make their little mark on the world and move on.

Oh I agree, its cheaper to just replace them instead of arguing with someone but the thing that annoyed me is I look like the stupid one because of other peoples incompetence. If I state my case they will just argue back and say "I don't care, just sort it".

 

[James]

Oh I agree, its cheaper to just replace them instead of arguing with someone but the thing that annoyed me is I look like the stupid one because of other peoples incompetence. If I state my case they will just argue back and say "I don't care, just sort it".

You do both, "fix the problem" even if it is only there in the eyes of one person.
send an invoice for the extra work needed to raise it from minimum requirements for compliance with regulations
to the inspectors preferences.
and make sure it is pointed out on the invoice why it is extra.
the inspector may well get a talking to, about why his projects are running over budget.